gauges not working

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

i have a 2015 g3 pontoon f250xca with a garmin 840xs fishfinder instead of the command link gauges. this is a factory install. none of the gauges work on the garmin. the only thing I get is with the engine running the needle appears on the speedo, no hrs , fuel level or anything. not even any even any needles on the other gauges checked the power and ground to the nema network,ok. the green power light comes on the gateway with main power. when I turn the key to on then the yellow light flashes, bursts of 3 like an old automotive code. all the plugs are tight on the nema and command link buss.

[fairdeal]

I have read that 3 yellow flashes mean "no data on the CL network, NMEA network OK"
>a problem with the Yamaha side, not the Garmin

what else is plugged into the bus?

this engine has electronic controls, yes?

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

gauges

yes has electronic controls. bus has power, red connector. connection to nema ,white and two cables labeled Yamaha with a part no.

[boscoe99]

What part number Gateway?

Is this your boat or are you working on it for someone?

Are you familiar with how the motor connects to the Gateway and the Gateway to the NMEA 2000 network?

From your description of three flashing yellows it appears that the Gateway is not seeing the Yamaha Command Link or Command Link Plus network.

GATEWAY TROUBLESHOOTING YELLOW LED:
The CL/CLP Gateway also incorporates a YELLOW diagnostic LED. This LED can be used for troubleshooting the system.
• LED Steady ON - the CL Plus Gateway is receiving power from the CL/CLP network but no data exchange from both the CL/CLP network and the NMEA 2000® network.
• LED Flashing ON/OFF (repeating) – CL/CLP network and NMEA 2000® networks OK and data transmission OK.
• LED Flashing ON/OFF (2 flashes followed by a pause) – no data transmission on the NMEA 2000® network, CL/CLP network data transmission OK.
• LED Flashing ON/OFF (three flashes followed by a pause) – no data transmission on the CL/CLP network, NMEA 2000® network OK.

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

gauges

I will have to get the number later.
this is my boat. the data transfer seems fairly straight forward. I am an ase master auto tech
the plugs on the buss left to right grey Yamaha, white to nema, 2 blank white plugs, grey looks like a jumper and red power. I am assuming the grey Yamaha plug is serial data. which wirers are the data pair.
a little more history while on the dealer lot someone tried to steel the motor and cut all the cables. dealer replaced the harness and said everything works. I kind of doubt that with all the other problem I have found have not had gauges since I picked it up last week. dealer is 200 miles away so I am going to fix it myself. could be a harness installation problem also.

[fairdeal]

while on the dealer lot someone tried to steel the motor and cut all the cables. dealer replaced the harness and said everything works.

so that could make for an error in what got plugged in where, I suppose

The DEC motors have an interesting wiring arrangment -

I've been meaning to ask Boscoe about it myself

here's three different ways Yamaha gauges can be connected:








so using the same hub, "plain" (not "Plus") Command Link (= NMEA 2000 output) can be connected to either the "Command Link Plus" connector
or the "Command Link" connector

although very differently:

the Command Link Plus connector resembles a N2K backbone - and ends with a terminator on the hub.

The Command Link connector resembles simply an extension of the non-DEC engine N2K connector - it becomes a "drop" on a N2K network - with a terminator on each end of the hub

Boscoe has explained that using the Command Link Plus method requires a Gateway to "tap off" N2K data for a non-Yamaha MFD

but that using the "plain" Command Link does not require a Gateway (as with any non-DEC engine)

[fairdeal]

a little more history while on the dealer lot someone tried to steel the motor and cut all the cables. dealer replaced the harness and said everything works..

so an opportunity for a connection error.

The DEC motors have interesting gauge wiring - I've been meaning to query Boscoe about it.

There is a "Command Link Plus" connector - which must be used with a Command Link Plus gauge.

Apparently it can also be used with "plain" Command Link gauges.

There is also a "Command Link" connector - which naturally can be used with Command Link, but not Plus.

Although they both use the same hub, significant difference in "architecture":

with the Plus, only one terminator - as though the hub is the end of a backbone

with the "plain" CL - its like the engine connector on a non-DEC engine -
it connects as a "drop";
and requires the hub to be a "mini backbone" with two terminators

and Boscoe has explained that the Plus "network" requires the use of the Yamaha Gateway for a non-Yamaha mfd

while the "plain" CL network does not require a Gateway

[fairdeal]

here's some graphics showing the three connection types mentioned above

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

gauges

thanks for the reply. my system is like the first picture. it has a factory installed gateway. I did notice that the grey empty plug is on the end. mine is right next to the power plug. if that is like the end jumper on nema mine is in the wrong spot. other wise the dealer is getting me a wiring diagram. I assume that I should be getting a digital waveform from the motor, if the diagram is labeled for what wire does what

[boscoe99]

The connections should look like this if there are no Yamaha gauges installed.

The grey plug is not empty. It is an end line resistor.

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

gauges

my end line resistor is next to the power plug not on the end as in the picture. I will switch it at lunch and see what happens.

[boscoe99]

If the input lead is on one bus port and the resistor on the other bus port it should not matter, but connect it per the illustration just to see what happens.

Double check to ensure that the Command Link Plus network is being used. If so, there will be an intermediate harness between the pigtail harness connecting to the hub and to the harness coming from the control box.

If the Command Link (no Plus) network is being used then a different configuration is to be used. The intermediate harness is not used. The pigtail connecting to the hub will connect directly to the harness coming from the control box.

Capiche?

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

gauges

there is pig in between
on another note while I was home at lunch I put a scope on the 4 wires going to the gateway module from the cl buss and got an analog pattern on all 4. this would seem like data being available in a car. could I have a bad gateway module. pn 6y98a2d020.

[fairdeal]

the system is definitely "based on" Bosch CAN
on the Command Link/NMEA 2000 the blue and white wires are CAN Hi and Lo
black and red are power for those nodes which require it

I have no idea what Yamaha is doing with Command Link Plus except that it obviously "incorporates" the NMEA 2000 data

as has already been mentioned, you can connect your garmin and the engine without using a Gateway, using the Command Link, not the Command Link Plus

[hedstromrepair@mt.net]

thanks

thanks very much for your help. found a broken pin in the pigtail from when the dealer changed wiring harnesses
you guys were a great help thankyou