Fuel Line Hose/Primer?

[nola0000]

Hi, new to the forum. Will have plenty of questions to come that I hope people here can help me with. I know exactly jackshit about outboards and boats in general. Lets start with...

Bought a center console about 4-5 years ago with a 2001 Yamaha 150 Vmax OX66 VX150TLRZ. Two things....

1. Please dont beat me up, but I ran it once and then put it away without doing ANYTHING to it. No storage procedure at all. I live in zone 8b(SE Louisiana) so the winters dont get too cold and we only get a hard freeze maybe 1 or 2 nights a year in the middle of the night for a few hours. I havent got a battery just yet so I havent tried to turn it over. I work on all my cars so Im handy with a wench. What should be my first step to bring this thing back to life? Last time I tried to start it was about 4 years ago and it turned over but wouldnt start which brings me to my next question...

2. After I bought the boat, went home, packed up some gear and took it out on the water. I went back home, put it in the driveway and started tearing it apart to rebuild the hull. Life happened and 4 years later Im getting in to it again. The primer bulb and its hoses are hard as a rock and were back then too. Everywhere I look locally or on the internet a "Yamaha Fuel Hose Kit" consist of some quick connect type fitting on one or both ends of which I dont have on my outboard. What is that deal with that? Do I need to cut that off and use screw clamps or zip ties like whats on there now or should I buy one of the universal fuel hose kits with a primer bulb? If so what I.D. size? I need to replace them but I dont know if the hose diameter is correct. It may have been replaced before with the wrong size.


Thanks, Kyle

[CatCam]

Hey from SE Louisiana too!

Okay - 1st DON'T run any fuel you have in the tank through your motor! My guess is that if it has been sitting for 4 years and it was probably an ethanol blended fuel you'll have water separation in the tank...that will FUBAR everything in your fuel system (pump, injectors, etc.)

Smaller outboards that use removable portable tanks have the quick disconnects that you allude to but the higher HP motors are direct fuel line connected, using fuel clamps or heavy duty zip ties.

Here is what I would do.
1. Drain your tank
2. Replace the primer ball - any always carry a spare one with you!
3. Fuel lines - replace with new - use the marine grade ethanol resistant lines. You can go to Boat Stuff or any other marine dealer and buy it by the foot. Make sure to use the same diameter as the ones you took off.
4. Install (or replace if you already have one) any inline fuel filters and or water separator filters.
5. Replace fuel filter on motor.
6. Most important - stay out of my fishing spots! (hahaha - kidding!)

Find a gas station that does NOT add ethanol to their Gas!

[rodbolt17]

you will most likly need a fuel pump in the VST, at a minimum clean the VST.
both lift pumps are most likly bad.
the water pump is done.
you can fix it or patch it.
winterizing an outboard has NOTHING to do with cold and EVERYTHING to do with protecting the fuel system and internal shiney parts.
after draining the fuel ssystem,vst,pumps and rail, refill from a remote tank using a 50-1 mix.

[nola0000]

Heeeeyyy! Bayou State represent!

So Catcam says no big deal, drain the system and rodbolt says its FUBARed. Which is it? Should I even bother draining the system or just start overhauling?

I dont think the fuel that was in it was ethanol fuel. I kind of remember the guy saying that he never ran ethanol fuel through it.

I attached a pic if it'll help.



http://s302.beta.photobucket.com/use...b2072.jpg.html

[CatCam]

I agree with Rodbolt - the VST filter will have to be cleaned...
I also agree if it sat up for four years the water pump impeller may disintegrate since it probably has become brittle and hard from non-use......kind of like tires that dry rot in 2 years because the car sits in the driveway.

Rodbolt is the "resident expert" when it come to these outboards so I'd take what he says as Gospel!

Rodbolt - why would the fuel pump need replacing?

[99yam40]

pump Could be locked up from varnish left when fuel evaporated would be my guess.

Hope the crank, bearings,rings,and cylinders (shiny parts) did not rust from lack of fogging oil

[nola0000]

rodbolt: Where and what are my "lift pumps"? By "water pump" do you mean impeller? You say "most likely need a fuel pump". Are you being dramatic or is it a certainty my fuel pump is ruined? Its like a $400 part. I dont want my wife to kill me and have to live with the guilt. If I just flushed out the fuel, cleaned/replaced the filters and cleaned the VST would I be safe to try and turn it over at that point? How would I go about draining "pumps and rail"? Do I need to put a vacuum on them or can I just open them up and let it flow out?

I guess my question is; what is the minimum I should do before I try to start it after all these years? If I did the fuel/filters/VST and then tried to start it would I risk damaging anything else? I understand that there could be other issues down the road like a bad fuel pump but I want to get it up and running first WITHOUT causing any further damage then work out the kinks or repair parts as I go.

I have the service and owners manual for this engine but there is no "you idiot you didnt prep your boat for storage" troubleshooting walk-through.

[Bilge Rat]

Drain all gas out of everything, fuel tank included.
Oil injected? Drain all oil out of the tanks and clean filters. The oil is no good, It will be thick i have seen it many times.

Clean VST.
Replace low pressure fuel pumps/ lift pumps. The rubber inside them is bad.
RElpace all filters.
When replacing the fuel filters fill them with 50 to 1 premix to lube all the parts that have been sitting. You might run the motor at first fireup off a small tank with premix for lube and to make sure the oil pump is working.

Injectors could be cleaned and calabrated.

You need to get all oil and fuel systems clean and new fluid in them before you try to start. Rubber parts are shot so that is why you replace them.
Starting a motor that has sat up needs to have fresh fluids.
You can cause big damage from clogged oil passages, lean fuel delivery, etc so spend a little on the essental parts/fluids and save a lot in the long term.

[nola0000]

When I drain the gas, do I need to pull a vacuum on the rails and such or can I just let gravity do the work?

What does Yamaha call the "low pressure fuel pump/lift pump"? I couldnt find that terminology used in the service manual. Is the "low pressure fuel pump" the one inside the VST? Still dont have a clue about the "lift pump".

You say injectors "could be" cleaned and calibrated, is that necessary just to get it running in my driveway or is that precautionary to prevent break down on the water? That is kind of the crux of my issue. I understand that there could be issues with things like the pump(s) and injectors and such but outboards are new to me and Im afraid to even turn it over while sitting in my driveway. I want to know what is a bare minimum to turn it over before I start digging into things like fuel pumps and injectors as this may or may not be needlessly necessary and expensive. Im not cheap just hearing it from the wife. I really dont know, thats why Im asking.

Dont take this the wrong way Bilge Rat, I appreciate your concern and your post was VERY helpful(maybe the most yet), but I want to get more opinions on the potential EXTRA damage that could be done to just trying to start it. Want more people to chime in with their experiences and knowledge.

As a side note what are peoples opinions of a Honda 150 4 stroke vs. my 2001 Yamaha Vmax 150 OX66 2 stroke as far as mpg, long term durability, cost of parts and on-water reliability? I MAY be able to get the Honda on the cheap. Not sure yet if I WANT one. Ive heard a few good things about the Yamaha OX66's

Thanks

[rodbolt17]

here is what I would do.
first rotate the engine by hand with the plugs out to make sure there is no binding.
next would be to remove the VST,remove the pump, use a can of combustion chamber cleaner. fill a small mason jar with said cleaner and soak the pump in it for 10-24 hours.
remove the injectors and do the same.
the lift pumps are the two pumps mounted on the block.
if the injector orings are not torn or cut they can be reused.
if the VST gasket is not deformed it can typically be reused,use vasoline to aide in holding it in place.
if you cut the original oeticker fuel line clamps you must use the same design as original.
DO NOT use standard automotive hose clamps.
the pump terminals are marked + and -.
after soaking use jumper leads and a 12V source and make sure the pump runs.

that gray fuel line leading to the engine filter is notorious for failing with E fuels, check it carefully.

while all the stuff is soaking replace the water pump,replace the pressure control valve grommet and t-stats.

reassemble the fuel system.
clean the oil tank water trap.
use a remote tank,can be a 1 gallon jug,mix ring free(seafoam)oil and fuel for a 50/1 mix.
refill the engine fuel system and check for leaks.
cycle the key several times to purge the air from the rail.
make sure you have plenty of water,I prefer to use both the onboard flusher and the muffs.
start the engine and let it run 15 min or so,thats why I use TWO hoses,it will insure adequate cooling for extended flushing.


pray to the boat gods you have no internal shiney part damage.

clean the hull fuel system and water test.

[nola0000]

W-o-w rodbolt, that was awesome thanks!
A few questions...

1. I google searched "combustion chamber cleaner" and didnt recognize any of the products. Is this something you get at a local marine parts store or a local auto parts store?

2. The cleaner was aerosol. I imagine it would take many cans and lots of dough to fill a mason jar with the stuff to soak the pump. Can I use any rubber-safe cleaner/degreaser so that I can buy the stuff in liquid form and pour it in the jar or does it have to be specifically "combustion chamber cleaner"? Is it available in liquid form?

3. You say to soak the whole pump in the cleaner. Do you mean full submerged? Is there any concern with soaking the plug harness thats part of the pump.

4. If the injector orings are ruined can I replace them with standard orings from the hardware store or are they a special size or shape? Can I upgrade them to ethanol safe rings or just a better material than rubber?

5. Just curious(always looking to learn) what is the problem with the automotive screw clamps vs. the oetikers? Where can I get those locally?

6. Again, by "water pump" do you mean the one in the lower unit? Thats the only mention of water pump I found in the service manual. You say to soak it but if its part of the lower unit and pumps water then what would I be flushing out, dirty water?

7. I searched "pressure control valve" in the service manual and couldnt find anything. What section of the outboard is that a part of?

8. Where is the oil tank water trap?

9. I couldnt find a Seafoam brand ring free. Do you just mean Seafoam?

10. I have the muffs but what is an onboard flusher?

[rodbolt17]

if the injector seals are bad get new ones from yamaha .

combustion chamber cleaner from a yamaha dealer.

12 oz is 12 oz, spary the aerosol into a jar.
the injectors can be soaked in it,remove the orings first.

soak the pump and tank with it.

the water trap is the vynil tube on the engine tank, use needle nose pliers and push it off DO NOT PULL.

[nola0000]

Thanks.

Could you address questions 5,6,7,9,10?

[nola0000]

The responses have been very, very helpful so far.

I just drained the fuel tank(under the console) in the boat. Pulled about 35 gallons of 5-year-old gas out and it was very yellow. Put it in an HDPE drum with a sealing lid. Left the lid sitting on top so the gas could expand and vent since I dont think the drum is rated for fuel storage. Here is a picture of the color comparison of the old gas vs. new gas...

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps0420057b.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...psad6e4e8f.jpg

The jar on the left is the old gas from the boat. The jar on the right is fresh gas.
What should I do with this old gas? Maybe mix with some fresh gas and use in my riding mower, chainsaw, etc?



The other task today is to hook up the fuel lines from the boat to the outboard that I disconnected to drain the tank. I used a new primer bulb to get the siphon started and I had to bypass the water/fuel separator that was mounted to the transom. It looks to be original to the boat and the filter was frozen solid, I couldnt move it at all. Here is a picture...

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5e33d270.jpg

I was thinking that I would have to replace it and I started wondering if it was needed at all. My outboard is a 2001 Yamaha 150 VMax OX66, it has what Yamaha calls a "fuel filter" on the "low pressure fuel line", here is a picture of mine...

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps14bb2072.jpg

My question is, does this take the place of the water/fuel separator thats mounted to my transom? My thinking was that maybe the old water/fuel separators were installed on these boats at a time before outboards had built-in fuel filters. Is the fuel filter on the outboard just a fuel filter or does it also separate water since it has a collection cup with an indicator float in it? Wouldnt that mean that the transom mounted water/fuel separator is redundant and thus not really needed or is it usually retained becuase its better at its job than the outboard mounted fuel filter?

[99yam40]

Replace the filters and holders if needed , do not just remove them.
Fuel looks good enough to mix some with new and run in something you do not mind problems happening to or just get rid of it