Yamaha Oil filters ?Dare to compare !

[almetelo]

My local Yamaha Dealer have a costumer that had an F80 used for comercial purpose (fishing) and the owner was very carefully with the motor (which is rare on these guys) and used to do some maintenance on the motor, they say the motor was so greased that they almost had to wear protective suit to touch on the motor.

The motor had 12000 hours than the gauge broked and he have done more +/- 2 or 3000h, the owner bought a new gauge and did more 5000h until motor died (its what he say)
Accordingly my local Yamaha dealer was because of bad aftermarket filter… if it was or not I dunno! Why he say the oil filter was the cause or some more details I dunno!

Here most of local fishing comunity (comercial) aren´t outboard users, are outboards/motors destroyers… maintenance!? What is that!? The motor is making a noise!? Who cares!? Will run untill it dies!!!

One thing that concern me about using a good quality aftermarket oil filter on the F100 is the oil flow on aftermarket filters that match with 5GH-13440-00 I can find around that are little shorter than 5GH-13440-00 or -30 ( +/- 7mm “1/4”) like the 5GH-13440-20 or -50
Some places say/recomend the use of the 5GH-13440-20 and the supercede -50 up tp the F70 (1000cc) while others say/recomend the use of that filters up to F115 1700cc displacement.

Since the filter is little shorter the oil flow can be afected? Dunno! Have a friend with auto parts shop and his employee with years of experience on the business say along the years most oil filters have been reduced on size for the same model/series of cars.

If that little shorter filters that match with original oil filter can be used (Ex: ) on Yamaha V-Max 1700 that revs up 9500rpms before red line it can´t be used on a outboard F75,80, 90 or 100 with 1600cc displacement? (little less than that bike, that both take same oil quantity 4,3l w/o oil filter and OB revs much less than the bike? In fact the load is completely diferente!

A Hiflo HF-303 (aka K&N 303 known as have good filters) and the same size of original YAMAHA/DENSO filter costs 7 $/€ while the original costs 14 $/€

If I save 7 $/€ I’ll not be more rich nor more poor if I spend more 7 $/€

Eventually I’ll be more tranquil using the original filter (that also can fail) but why pay more if I can have a good filter for half of the price on even less!

Its the unknown world of outboards that let us lots of doubts.

The are a few stories about cars damaged because bad (chinese/cheap) filters

Paying 1 or 2 $/€ for a filter what they expected?

Just me thinking aloud!!! lol

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I can say with the Hiflo oil filter cartridge for a Kawasaki 2005 KLR 250cc (previous bike) it looked just like the K&N oil filter.

Having used both, I counted the pleats folded up in each filter and the K&N had more pleats (filtering area) than the Hiflo. Absolutly no doubt. Looked very similar until you look closer...

My local MC shop (I've known the owner for about 30 years) was able to confirm this as well when contacting HIFLO.

Needless to say, for a couple of extra bucks, I won't cheap out on a filter, you generally get what you pay for...

[almetelo]

Hi Scott!

I thought Hiflo and K&N where the same manufacturer kind like WIX/NAPA

You that live bikes world for sure you've read lots of posts about oil filters which I belive to be a lot of times on discussion / debate

Bikes are also away more explored than OB

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hi Scott!

I thought Hiflo and K&N where the same manufacturer kind like WIX/NAPA

You that live bikes world for sure you've read lots of posts about oil filters which I belive to be a lot of times on discussion / debate

Bikes are also away more explored than OB

It may very well be made by the same company but I know on that filter (and I'm sure others, they cut back in some ways)...

I've be wrenching on motorcycles (mostly Yamaha's) since I was 15, 56 now.

My Yamaha OB experiance is limited to my old Evinrudes(very limited, 3 banger 75 HP, 140 V4 "looper", V6 150(all two strokes). This Yamaha F150 is my first Yamaha OB as well as a 4 stroke OB.

I'm often wrong as I apply MC technology to Yamaha OB's which I've learned Yamaha makes so many changes(even in the same year).

Yes, my current bike is FI'ed, double overhead valves, water cooled, has throttle bodies, TPS, etc. There is no VST tank as the fuel pump is in the fuel tank, the pressure regulator at the end of the fuel rail, syncing is simply done with a manometer, timing NOT adjustable, etc. Tip over switches to kill the engine, many safety switches- kick stand down, clutch, switch, etc.

Many similarities, many differences..

One big difference is on the bike, the 6 speed transmission is part of the engine. Should you break something in the gear box, ie shifter fork, the engine has to be broken down completly, cases split, etc. No separating the LU from the powerhead here... Anyway, back to the thread!

[Nautical]

Its not about the filter ..Its about the oil.. Pull the dipstick and look at the oil.. That's the deciding factor. My engine oil is always honey colored so I know my aftermkt filter is working. I believe that there is nothing majical about a Yamaha mass produced oil filter. KN or Fram ultra synthetic is as good and mostlikely even better.Keep it clean, check it often and change it often and all will be good. names are names.

[almetelo]

Nautical I guess I can´t agree with...

What more concern me is if the oil filter disintegrates like Robert suggested a few posts back, then oil flow and after just the oil filtration but I know very few about oil filters... (it just my opinion for now...)

What concern me is this:

Good Information Cheaper oil change alternative for yamaha F225 vs yamahalube and yam.filter

It was the only Yamaha OB failure related with oil filter I found on the net I don´t even have an idea if Sierra have good oil filters or not...

[robert graham]

Google: oil filters disintegrate....several stories about the filter media/paper coming apart and plugging oil passages...and some were name brand filters!...

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Nautical I guess I can´t agree with...

.

I concur but each is entitled to his opinion.


And just because its on the net does NOT mean its true. Lets see some proof, etc.. I know that particular HIFLO had LESS SURFACE AREA (PLeats), than the K&N. I counted them. Different name, maybe same manufacturer, definitly NOT the same filter. Buy one of each and do the math.

I don't run my OB hard and don't mind paying for the Yamaha filter. When I installed it last, it was torqued down properly. Of course, over time they tend to tighten up. This last change, it tightened up alot.. With the correct socket to fit over the end, it came off with some substantial force. I can say I've seen other filters that were this tight, literally crumble with that much force used with a large cup socket (on the end of the filter)..


Mobil 1 motorcycle specific full synthetic oil on the forum I frequent
( FZ6 Forum Community ) does NOT have a good reputation. Being the gear box/clutch uses the same oil as the engine, shifting becomes MUCH worse using that particular oil. The gear box tends to shear the oil molecules (that's why theres 90 wt in our LU's).

I recently changed over to Motul 7100 Full synthetic in the bike (and had the K&P filter for sometime). I can feel the shifting /performance difference with this combination. With NO paper in the K&P and a cast aluminum body, there's nothing to disintegrate...

[Nautical]

I am not referencing any oil filter that is not top quality ie KN or Fram Ultra Mobil 1. You reference Chinese..well, Yamaha oil filter is Chinese !I personally have never heard of any outboard engine or automotive engine failing due to an inferior US made brand oil filter with media coming apart within a normal maintenance interval. if so, I would bet that would be a major news story and that oil filter manufacturer would be buying a new engine for sure. My point is that keep your oil clean , use a top quality filter, not necessarily base it on a name. looking at the Yamaha picture shown it looks to me to be crappy looking constructed filter compared to KN, Mobil one . Fram Ultra is far superior. I know Fram name but take a look at their new Ultra series..made for synthetic oil.. Well made with superior anti drain back construction. Not a cheapo !

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram...-filter.aspx#2

[almetelo]

Maybe we aren´t talking about the same thing.

WhenI look for a alternative oil filter I look for a good quality filter and cheaper than original otherwise I would stand with the original.

You reference Chinese..well,

Here you have my answer:

(I'm not talking about any cheap filter)

I personally have never heard of any outboard engine or automotive engine failing due to an inferior US made brand oil filter

Really!?!?!? That Sierra oil filter is Chinese? If you Google “oil filters disintegrate” Like Robert suggested all would find is chinese stuff?

Uncle Sam stuff don´t fail… Ever! No way…

When I looked for alternative filters for my OB found as alternative:

WIX 51538
NAPA 1358
K&N 303
BALDWIN B1400
PUROLATOR ML16817 / ML16819
FRAM PH6017A

Etc etc

And the Fram from what I’ve read is the worst of all… Now I know… I know… You’re talking about a superior oil filter but like Scott say if you read it on the net don´t have to be true like you never heard about US oil filters failure doesn´t mean don´t happen…

Once more When I look for a alternative oil filter I look for a good quality filter and cheaper than original otherwise I would stand with the original unless I need something special which I don’t.

What concern me:

1st if the filter don´t desintegrates ( no… no… I’m not talking on cheap/chinese filter as I’m not talking about top/expensive filters)

A honey oil as you say is importante, yes! Off couse! But what that matter if filter desintegrates and clog passages inpeding oil to get to the motor and contaminating oil

2nd If the motor gets the enough oil (oil flow) for its needs (don´t want a seized motor because lack of the oil filter)

And just after the oil filtration.

I know… My english is poor and maybe you don’t understand me or I can´t understand what you write.

I'm disposed to change my mind if your is better and since I don´t understand much about oil filters

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've also read Fram did NOT rate well.

I use thier top of the line in the SUV as it doesn't see super high RPM's (5K maybe @ WOT((RARE))?.

Never had an issue in the 14 years I've owned the vehicle. Its changed yearly (usually with 1,000 miles on the oil-which comes pretty damn clean).

I've used K&N's, the Yamaha filter, the Yamaha filter innerds are very sturdy compared to others. Folks on my MC forum are constantly "crunching" (literally) oil filters trying to remove them(as they tend to tighten up over time).

I do agree keeping clean oil is essential. However, all filters are NOT created the same.

Same with air filters. The K&N "oiled/cleanable" air filter is known to pass more air flow but ALSO MORE debris as well... The OEM air filter works just fine.

[Nautical]

That is true about cleanable air filters, but USA made Ie Fram , Purolator, Mobil One and K@N all have to meet manufacturers specifications. The liability these companies face is enormous if they fail to perform to manuf specs. I have never heard of any USA branded oil filter that has caused an engine failure in the 3000 mile or specified oil change interval in my lifetime. If you have please elaborate. I personally use only high end filters made for synthetic oil because that is what I use. I feel these high end filters supercede any of Yamahas specifications & for around the same money.Yamaha filters are made by Chinese in Thailand and you certainly pay many middlemen in between before it gets to the consumer hence the high price. Sooo to many it is comforting to read the word Yamaha on the label and as comforting to pay a higher price.. Feel free.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've never heard of any oil filter exploding.

One did leak at the gasket mating surface on a Yamaha MC (similar to mine-don't remember the brand). And yes, just ONE o-ring gasket was there).

There was NO damage to the engine and a new filter stopped the leakage..

There are so many different "tests" / graphs out there you don't know what to believe.

For the extended warranty for the Yamaha OB, (which I bought way back), I stuck (and still use) the OEM. I wouldn't want a warranty claim possibly denied for the use of a wrong filter.

IME, not that I like dropping over $20 for a filter, but I have a bunch invested in this engine and prefer to stick with what I know I've never had an issue with.

I would like to hear the opinion from the person with the most, professional, hands on experiance, (professional mechanic), here on the forum, "Rodbolt" .

If its happened, he's likely seen it... Rodbolt?

@Rodbolt

[Nautical]

As per your quote above :"For the extended warranty for the Yamaha OB, (which I bought way back), I stuck (and still use) the OEM. I wouldn't want a warranty claim possibly denied for the use of a wrong filter."

Magnuson-Moss Act ..FYI

[DennisG01]

This has been a very interesting read! Thank you to everyone that has offered information!

I'm going to say right up front that I'm not a fan of Fram. In fact, there's a saying that's been around for some time: "Friends don't let friends use Fram". Now, the only personal experience I have with Fram is with their "normal" filter. But, I have personally seen (two different times) the pleats separate from each other! Basically, the pleats came apart and created a nice big hole for unfiltered oil to pass right through. Adding into the mix that the end caps were only cardboard... didn't make me feel too confident in these filters.

I've worked part time (and occasionally full time) in the marine industry for 25 years. But I'm nowhere near as imersed in the industry as someone like Rodbolt or others on this forum. These two times (bad filters), though, were customer boats where they previously did their own oil change and fell into the "all oil filters are the same" line of thinking. The reason I cut into these filters was because the oil was a little dirtier than I would have expected to see and with that orange filter staring at me, I decided to take a look.

The point about a filter causing/not causing engine damage to the point of engine destruction isn't really the point. It takes an awful lot of 'crap' to cause an engine failure within the relatively short time period of an oil change. Plus, marine engines don't tend to see as much dust and dirt being ingested as cars - nor do they have anywhere near the amount of run time on them. So, while the theory of using/not using a particular filter based on "documented engine failures" doesn't really hold water, I'm sure there was at least some damage, however slight, done to these engines I worked on. Besides, I doubt anyone can say that they think pleat separation is "OK".

For me, if I personally saw pleat separation twice - I have to wonder how many more examples of this are out there. I'm not saying that Yamaha is the only manufacturer of "good" filters. Just that there are plenty of good options out there and it's just not worth it to try and save a couple of dollars once a year on an inferior brand under the disguise of "all filters are basically the same" or "it must be good enough, otherwise they wouldn't still be in business". It's just not worth it - and my engines, regardless of how much they cost to replace, are not something I'm going to take a chance on. Even if the "better" Fram filters are more reliable, there's too many other tried-n-true brands out there - it's just not worth it.