Breaking in a "new" old motor..

[LauraFrance]

Hi there,
Back again asking for your advice, as again having conflicting info!

Motor F70 2011/2012 : only 2 hours then was sitting in a yard until i purchased couple of months ago.

Have basically overhauled engine and been out today for the first time, however, conflicting opinions about the breaking in period and what i should or should not be doing.

For info:
- all fuel was drained, cleaned tanks, all filters replaced and filled up with new fuel
- oil drained and filter changed
- cam belt and thermostat changed
- water pump, gear oil changed
- anodes changed

Was told to keep between 2500-3000 for the next 10 hours and then push to over 3500-4000 get boat on plane

Reading the yamaha manual, it suggests differently.. I am not sure what the first 2h were..

I will be doing check up and oil change at 20h as per the maintenance schedule..

Any advice on the experts about breaking in an older engine?

Merci!

[99yam40]

there is a lot more to overhauling a motor than what simple things you did.( just wrong wording choice)

But is nothing to do with breaking in that motor.
if it was stored properly, you will be lucky and not have any rust in bad places .

who was it that told you to run at 2500-3000 for the next 10 hours?

Myself, I would pay attention to the owners manual, But I never read it so I have no idea what they say to do.

[boscoe99]

I would follow the Mercury four stroke break in procedure. Even though your motor has two hours on it, I would treat it as having zero time. The Mercury procedure seems to offer a better chance of the motor never making oil. Procedure is as follows:

[LauraFrance]

Thank you for your replies.. much appreciated!! Both mechanics have said different things.

I thought the mechanic would have changed all of the pieces that they recommended changing... was there something 99yam that we missed?

For the breaking in procedure, the manual simply is the photo below....

It doesn't say much, just says to avoid full throttle for 5 minutes, so, we are safe to say that i need to go full throttle on occasions, but no longer than 5 minutes at a time.. the mercury procedure does give better guidelines and something to follow so i will restart the procedure next week..

Full throttle being 5300-6300rpm as per my manual.. going to have to choose a flat calm day!!!

[99yam40]

an overhaul is changing main motor parts (rings, bearings, and cutting or at least honing the cylinders).
and On a 4 stroke it deals with the valves also.

I was just saying your use of that word (Overhaul) is not what most would expect on a motor.

10 hours Is a long time to play with the throttle back and forth,
some people just take a day or 2 and just take care of it without trying to fish or do much anything else.
Hopefully you have a protected area that this all can be done.
If you start early enough you can get it done in one long day

[boscoe99]

Thank you for your replies.. much appreciated!! Both mechanics have said different things.

I thought the mechanic would have changed all of the pieces that they recommended changing... was there something 99yam that we missed?

For the breaking in procedure, the manual simply is the photo below....

It doesn't say much, just says to avoid full throttle for 5 minutes, so, we are safe to say that i need to go full throttle on occasions, but no longer than 5 minutes at a time.. the mercury procedure does give better guidelines and something to follow so i will restart the procedure next week..

Full throttle being 5300-6300rpm as per my manual.. going to have to choose a flat calm day!!!

With the Yamaha break in procedure one could possible operate the first ten hours at no more than 2000 RPM. And that is for the first hour only. The second hour could be less than that if one can plane at less than 2000 RPM. Hours 3 thru 10 could be idle if one wanted to do so.

In a model that operates up to 6300 RPM, is 2000 RPM the equivalent of half throttle? I don't think so.

Now the Mercury manual mandates that the motor be run at wide open throttle for one minute out of every ten minutes during the first two hours. 12 minutes at wide open throttle. And the rest of the two hours time at or about 4500 RPM. A big big difference vis a vis the Yamaha procedure.

A lot of Yamaha motors suffer from the "making oil" phenomenon whereas the Mercury motors not so much so. Is the break in procedure the difference?

Just like a number of Yamaha two stroke motors fare better using Pennzoil than Yamalube, it appears that a number of Yamaha four strokes fare better using the Mercury break in procedure.

[99yam40]

also have to wonder how many people really follow the procedures during breakin.

how come chain saws and weedeaters do not come with breakin procedures?

[ausnoelm]

Maybe because a chainsaw is only a tiny fraction of the price of a new outboard, and it's pretty unlikely you will be operating your chainsaw for hours at a time?

[99yam40]

you are correct on prices, but I have run chainsaws and weed eaters for hours , but not not a steady WOT.
the RPMs are varied as you move from one object to the next and you have to refill the tanks

[zenoahphobic]

I think it is wise to break in EVERY motor, because even if "factory run in" it would be unlikely done over a range of loads or indeed not for a very long time.

You would relate the rate of breaking in with the expected rate of wearing out. That is: a very slow and long breaking in hopes to ensure a longer life.

With modern exacting machining and metallurgy there is less a requirement for softly breaking in; in the old days breaking in tended to be to "wear" components to fit better.

I think today there is no longer a need to break in components to fit better. However there will still be some need to polish some surfaces to get rid of tiny imperfections. Piston rings seem to still need some "grinding" to seal and produce oil holding ability of the bore surfaces.

Ofcourse some form of breaking in will need to be done to avoid parts of the engine getting hotter than designed before full load (and revs). That is: we need to limit the expansion rate of components so they don't destruct or excessively wear before frictional forces settle down and reach their minimum. So I would think the rule to not excessively rev and varying those revolutions, which equates to changing load, still applies.
I question the need to use full throttle/ maximum revs in the early stages, because logically if the engine needs running in then the frictional heat produced will exceed the engines design limit. Or if it doesn't then there has been sufficient breaking in. But I see the point at some point MAximum needs to be run.

[pstephens46]

I think it is wise to break in EVERY motor, because even if "factory run in" it would be unlikely done over a range of loads or indeed not for a very long time.

You would relate the rate of breaking in with the expected rate of wearing out. That is: a very slow and long breaking in hopes to ensure a longer life.

With modern exacting machining and metallurgy there is less a requirement for softly breaking in; in the old days breaking in tended to be to "wear" components to fit better.

I think today there is no longer a need to break in components to fit better. However there will still be some need to polish some surfaces to get rid of tiny imperfections. Piston rings seem to still need some "grinding" to seal and produce oil holding ability of the bore surfaces.

Ofcourse some form of breaking in will need to be done to avoid parts of the engine getting hotter than designed before full load (and revs). That is: we need to limit the expansion rate of components so they don't destruct or excessively wear before frictional forces settle down and reach their minimum. So I would think the rule to not excessively rev and varying those revolutions, which equates to changing load, still applies.
I question the need to use full throttle/ maximum revs in the early stages, because logically if the engine needs running in then the frictional heat produced will exceed the engines design limit. Or if it doesn't then there has been sufficient breaking in. But I see the point at some point MAximum needs to be run.

Where the hell you been?

[zenoahphobic]

Where the hell you been?

Holidays travelling with camper trailer and limited data reception.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I followed the manual for my break in (similar to yours). Varied the RPMs, etc. You DON'T WANT TO IDLE IT a bunch..

Changing the RPM's is more for SEATING in the PISTON RINGS... You don't want to "glaze" the cylinders babying it too much.

My engine doesn't burn a drop of oil, nor "make it".


*With that said, I did a semi "Moto-man" ( http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm ) break in with my 2004 Yamaha FJR1300 Motorcycle.
Basically, "run it like you stole it" but I took it just shy of red line. Again, it's about piston ring seating with the cylinders.

I did change the oil and filter at 30 or 50 miles(forgot, it's been since 2004) and a bunch of "silver shiney" came out. Changed it again at the normal called for break in oil change(very little silvery metal)
That bike, never burned a drop of oil, always ran like a top..


Varying the RPM's IS the MOST important thing and NOT idling for long periods of time is key


Just an FYI, for say an air cooled GENERATOR, most run at 3600 RPM, no varying of the RPM's.
Breaking in that kind of engine, I'll manually control the throttle, lower the RPM's, raise them and also turn off, LET COOL DOWN, and re-peat- Lots of heat cycles and oil change (especially as most engines under 10HP DON'T have oil filters).

[FabricGATOR]

LauraFrance
In a nut shell... Breaking in an engine is a process of getting everything 'new' to learn how to work well with all the other 'new' components. Your engine is a (new) low hour engine that has been neglected by lack of use (likely without the "moth ball" preservative steps taken)

If I were going to take a machine like this and store it away for months, even years, there are certain steps, procedures, and products to help 'save' the engine from "storage damage".

So back to the nutshell: Think of it like this: You want to take it easy on the ole girl in the beginning, but... every once once in a while, run her hard. Crop that horse and make sure it knows that sometimes it has to run hard and fast with little advance notice.

Try to not 'groove' the engine... don't run around all the time at the same speed (rpm). Vary the speeds and 'time' at the various engine speeds.... And then, every once in a while "punch it" and run fast and hard for a minute or two. Then back off to something less exertive and let her relax while in 'cool down' trotting mode. Avoiding a lot of full speed to idle and back to full speed. (now I said avoid, not 'prohibited') Sometimes in say a 'water skii' activity, we do just that... punch it from idle to get the skiier out of the water and then back off to a comfort cruise/ski speed. So train your engine to do that type work too.

Yes, the first few hours of operation 'break in hours' are critical for the very longest and most reliable engine life / performance possible. With today's technology and machining tooling manufacturing ability, this is not as critical as it was 40 years ago, but it still holds true. All the new parts will work better together as they wear themselves to near perfection and polish.

Change the oil in shorter than usual interval in your case. At least in the beginning.
Not only are you breaking in the engine with only two hours (wear polishing new parts by use) but you may also be overcoming a little surface rust that formed over years of sitting without a storage fogging. So change the oil and filter regularly in say half the time recommended, then 3/4 time recommended, then return to recommended oil/filter change interval. The only thing extra oil change is going to hurt are the franc's in your purse.

dog it till it is dead, whine.

Cheers!

[zenoahphobic]

I followed the manual for my break in (similar to yours). Varied the RPMs, etc. You DON'T WANT TO IDLE IT a bunch..

Changing the RPM's is more for SEATING in the PISTON RINGS... You don't want to "glaze" the cylinders babying it too much.

My engine doesn't burn a drop of oil, nor "make it".


*With that said, I did a semi "Moto-man" ( http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm ) break in with my 2004 Yamaha FJR1300 Motorcycle.
Basically, "run it like you stole it" but I took it just shy of red line. Again, it's about piston ring seating with the cylinders.

I did change the oil and filter at 30 or 50 miles(forgot, it's been since 2004) and a bunch of "silver shiney" came out. Changed it again at the normal called for break in oil change(very little silvery metal)
That bike, never burned a drop of oil, always ran like a top..


Varying the RPM's IS the MOST important thing and NOT idling for long periods of time is key


Just an FYI, for say an air cooled GENERATOR, most run at 3600 RPM, no varying of the RPM's.
Breaking in that kind of engine, I'll manually control the throttle, lower the RPM's, raise them and also turn off, LET COOL DOWN, and re-peat- Lots of heat cycles and oil change (especially as most engines under 10HP DON'T have oil filters).

Yes, lots of heat cycles, to control Thermal runaway, where a tight engine creates more heat that causes expansion of parts making it tighter causing more heat......It is surprising how a hot engine is allowed to cool that upon next running actually runs cooler.

You being a motorcycle man, you would also have noticed that a motorcycle does take time to settle in. This is indicated by seemingly increase in performance still evident after several thousand miles. My XSR 700 keeps going harder, it now has 3000 km.
Now there maybe an argument that I am not running this bike in hard enough, but it is hard to change conservative ways that proved prudent earlier in my 50 years of motoring!