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As you will see from below replacing the high pressure fuel filter (inside the engine) helped for a while.
Power Loss 2006 Yamaha F90, 21 foot skiff
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We acquired a Carolina Skiff outfitted with a F90 in 2006. Here is my saga. I apologize for the length of the post but I felt the background was necessary in order to answer the questions posed at the end. Does anyone have any ideas because I have done everything I can to take ethanol or aftermarket products out of the picture?
For the first 200 hours we used nonethanol fuel with the pink stabil.
Subsequent to the 200 hour service completed 9/17/08, the gas stations stopped carrying nonethanol gas and I switched to ethanol and blue stabil for ethanol. In the beginning of the 2009 season (June) and well before we were due for our next 100 hour service, we had the boat abruptly decelerate from 4,500 rpm.
The dealer identified the problem a dirty high pressure fuel filter which he replaced. He said the ethanol and the ethanol treatment had removed build up left by the regular gas and pink stabil from the tank and deposited it in the fuel filter. The dealer also installed a water seperator/filter (this is under the console by the tank followed by a run of fuel line back to the motor) and changed the gas tank from a quick disconnect. Furthermore the dealer advised me to run Yamaha brand stabilizer and ring free. He also suggested I run the tank down and keep no more than a week's worth of gas in the tank.
I did all that was suggested. In fact, I ran out of gas one day, after which I even siphoned out everything I could. After running out of gas I kept 15 gals in the tank (this is 2 times what we need for our longest trip) unless I knew we were not going to be using the boat.
We proceeded to run the boat on average 7 times a month through 10/2009 with no problems. We started the winter season with about 5 gallons of gas. We only got out twice during the winter but ran the boat at the dock at least once a month.
On 6/4/10 I added 5-10 gallons to the tank and we made our first fishing outing of spring/summer season. We lost power again. We assumed the gas had gone bad and that the filter did its job. We replaced the filter with a sierra filter (the only thing available locally). We made two boating trips and felt good about the fix. We then took the boat for annual servicing. We instructed the mechanic to perform the 200 hour service even though we were only due for 100 hour. The only thing the mechanic didn't do was check the high pressure fuel filter because it had been changed less than a year ago. We got the boat back added 10 gallons of gas to the tank and headed out for a long run. We lost power again on the way home. As near as I can tell we got about 13 hours on the filter change and ran around 15 gallons of gas through the filter.
We couldn't believe the filter was dirty again and since I had noticed a lot of pressure when I added gas, we thought the gas cap was not venting. We put a new one on (same brand but slightly different design) and took a ride. We were at 4,500 rpm for no more than a few minutes and the engine lost power again. We not only made sure the cap was vented, we actually took it off but the problem got worse and the motor even tried to stall out at one point.
We did some shopping and found we could get ethanol free gas. We decided to take ethanol and gas issues out of the picture by draining the tank and cleaning it as best we could by swishing gas around to move the debris to the front corner, siphoned it out, dried it with a sham ***, let it dry, and vacuumed out anything we saw remaining. We replaced the tank, put in 10 gals of ethanol free gas treated with Yamaha stabilizer (recommended by the dealer even though we were not running ethanol). The only old gas would have been what remained in the fuel line from the tank to the separator.
We replaced the sierra water seperator and went for a ride. We rode at 4,500 - 5,000 rpm for 3 1/2 to 4 miles with no issues. We then added another 10 gallons of gas and went on a fishing outing close to home. On the way home the problem resurfaced--that is, the second filter lasted for all of 2 hours with around 4 gallons of gas used. What I did notice after adding a second 10 gals of nonehtanol fuel with the Yamaha stabilizer is that the gas once mixed up took on the green color of the stabilizer, dark enough that I couldn't see the bottom of the tank. When I looked in the tank after we had been home for some time the fuel was clear but there is some debris on the bottom again.
So here we are. If the problem was the old ethanol gas should it be solved?
Could the stabilizer be bad? I have the older formulation of the Yamaha stabilizer purchased from the dealer on 9/17/08. When I poured the stabilizer from my almost empty bottle into my measuring cup I saw a spec of debris. I cleaned the cup and poured more and it was loaded with crap. I had used this on the first 10 gals. and didn't notice any such junk. I didn't use it on the second 10 gals., instead I opened a new bottle which was clear of junk. Yamaha came out with a new formulation labeled plus which the dealer preferred but told me to use the old formulation if I couldn't get the new one. Does stabilizer have a shelf life? Does anyone know why Yamaha reformulated the stabilizer?
Could it be that because I failed to thoroughly clear the fuel line and the ball of the old gas*clonk* that the separator once again has water and/or gunk left over from the ethanol that sat all winter? That is, after all we have done is it worth the effort of changing the filter again, now that all the old stuff is out of the system and cross our fingers?
If the problem was in the engine, then why would changing separator filters help? Last time once the high pressure filter got clogged it never righted itself until the filter was changed.
My plan, replace the sierra separator with the Yamaha brand. This takes not only ethanol out of the picture but aftermarket accessories, as well. If, as I expect, the engine malfunctions again pull it and take it to the dealer. If he tells me the problem is fuel related, what do I do? I know the fuel is good but I have some concerns about the stabilizer.
If the dealer tells me the high pressure filter is dirty again, can I assume that the separator didn't keep the ethanol fuel from causing trouble further down the fuel line or that there was some crap left in the fuel system after the last filter change? If so now that we have run 4 gallons or so of non ethanol through the system can we assume that the ethanol fuel is gone and we will be ok?
Should I insist all fuel lines be changed out?
It is a shame because we still have 2 years left on the extended warranty but my husband is at his wits end and has lost confidence in this engine. In fact, he is talking about selling the boat. This is partly because we are novices and when we try to address a problem we are either addressing the wrong problem or we don't do it right (i.e. not draining the fuel line to the filter). This leaves us frustrated by the time we get professional help.
Power Loss 2006 Yamaha F90, 21 foot skiff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We acquired a Carolina Skiff outfitted with a F90 in 2006. Here is my saga. I apologize for the length of the post but I felt the background was necessary in order to answer the questions posed at the end. Does anyone have any ideas because I have done everything I can to take ethanol or aftermarket products out of the picture?
For the first 200 hours we used nonethanol fuel with the pink stabil.
Subsequent to the 200 hour service completed 9/17/08, the gas stations stopped carrying nonethanol gas and I switched to ethanol and blue stabil for ethanol. In the beginning of the 2009 season (June) and well before we were due for our next 100 hour service, we had the boat abruptly decelerate from 4,500 rpm.
The dealer identified the problem a dirty high pressure fuel filter which he replaced. He said the ethanol and the ethanol treatment had removed build up left by the regular gas and pink stabil from the tank and deposited it in the fuel filter. The dealer also installed a water seperator/filter (this is under the console by the tank followed by a run of fuel line back to the motor) and changed the gas tank from a quick disconnect. Furthermore the dealer advised me to run Yamaha brand stabilizer and ring free. He also suggested I run the tank down and keep no more than a week's worth of gas in the tank.
I did all that was suggested. In fact, I ran out of gas one day, after which I even siphoned out everything I could. After running out of gas I kept 15 gals in the tank (this is 2 times what we need for our longest trip) unless I knew we were not going to be using the boat.
We proceeded to run the boat on average 7 times a month through 10/2009 with no problems. We started the winter season with about 5 gallons of gas. We only got out twice during the winter but ran the boat at the dock at least once a month.
On 6/4/10 I added 5-10 gallons to the tank and we made our first fishing outing of spring/summer season. We lost power again. We assumed the gas had gone bad and that the filter did its job. We replaced the filter with a sierra filter (the only thing available locally). We made two boating trips and felt good about the fix. We then took the boat for annual servicing. We instructed the mechanic to perform the 200 hour service even though we were only due for 100 hour. The only thing the mechanic didn't do was check the high pressure fuel filter because it had been changed less than a year ago. We got the boat back added 10 gallons of gas to the tank and headed out for a long run. We lost power again on the way home. As near as I can tell we got about 13 hours on the filter change and ran around 15 gallons of gas through the filter.
We couldn't believe the filter was dirty again and since I had noticed a lot of pressure when I added gas, we thought the gas cap was not venting. We put a new one on (same brand but slightly different design) and took a ride. We were at 4,500 rpm for no more than a few minutes and the engine lost power again. We not only made sure the cap was vented, we actually took it off but the problem got worse and the motor even tried to stall out at one point.
We did some shopping and found we could get ethanol free gas. We decided to take ethanol and gas issues out of the picture by draining the tank and cleaning it as best we could by swishing gas around to move the debris to the front corner, siphoned it out, dried it with a sham ***, let it dry, and vacuumed out anything we saw remaining. We replaced the tank, put in 10 gals of ethanol free gas treated with Yamaha stabilizer (recommended by the dealer even though we were not running ethanol). The only old gas would have been what remained in the fuel line from the tank to the separator.
We replaced the sierra water seperator and went for a ride. We rode at 4,500 - 5,000 rpm for 3 1/2 to 4 miles with no issues. We then added another 10 gallons of gas and went on a fishing outing close to home. On the way home the problem resurfaced--that is, the second filter lasted for all of 2 hours with around 4 gallons of gas used. What I did notice after adding a second 10 gals of nonehtanol fuel with the Yamaha stabilizer is that the gas once mixed up took on the green color of the stabilizer, dark enough that I couldn't see the bottom of the tank. When I looked in the tank after we had been home for some time the fuel was clear but there is some debris on the bottom again.
So here we are. If the problem was the old ethanol gas should it be solved?
Could the stabilizer be bad? I have the older formulation of the Yamaha stabilizer purchased from the dealer on 9/17/08. When I poured the stabilizer from my almost empty bottle into my measuring cup I saw a spec of debris. I cleaned the cup and poured more and it was loaded with crap. I had used this on the first 10 gals. and didn't notice any such junk. I didn't use it on the second 10 gals., instead I opened a new bottle which was clear of junk. Yamaha came out with a new formulation labeled plus which the dealer preferred but told me to use the old formulation if I couldn't get the new one. Does stabilizer have a shelf life? Does anyone know why Yamaha reformulated the stabilizer?
Could it be that because I failed to thoroughly clear the fuel line and the ball of the old gas*clonk* that the separator once again has water and/or gunk left over from the ethanol that sat all winter? That is, after all we have done is it worth the effort of changing the filter again, now that all the old stuff is out of the system and cross our fingers?
If the problem was in the engine, then why would changing separator filters help? Last time once the high pressure filter got clogged it never righted itself until the filter was changed.
My plan, replace the sierra separator with the Yamaha brand. This takes not only ethanol out of the picture but aftermarket accessories, as well. If, as I expect, the engine malfunctions again pull it and take it to the dealer. If he tells me the problem is fuel related, what do I do? I know the fuel is good but I have some concerns about the stabilizer.
If the dealer tells me the high pressure filter is dirty again, can I assume that the separator didn't keep the ethanol fuel from causing trouble further down the fuel line or that there was some crap left in the fuel system after the last filter change? If so now that we have run 4 gallons or so of non ethanol through the system can we assume that the ethanol fuel is gone and we will be ok?
Should I insist all fuel lines be changed out?
It is a shame because we still have 2 years left on the extended warranty but my husband is at his wits end and has lost confidence in this engine. In fact, he is talking about selling the boat. This is partly because we are novices and when we try to address a problem we are either addressing the wrong problem or we don't do it right (i.e. not draining the fuel line to the filter). This leaves us frustrated by the time we get professional help.
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