Theoretical Q about lectrics...

[oldmako69]

If one were so inclined, and if one haphazardly reversed the leads to a starter motor so that Pos was Neg and vice versa, would that starter motor spin when the key was selected to start? And, for bonus points, if it started, would that battery receive a charge once the engine started? The main Yam leads on my engines only get so far, and the distance between their extremis and my batteries has been bridged by heavy battery cables. Sloppily I might add.

You know, how a light bulb could care less if the current is on one screw and the ground the other. That kind of thing.

Long story, but suffice it to say that a connection in my bilge appears to be bass-ackward and I aim to remedy it. Here's the rub, I bought the boat this way and have put almost 100 hours on it since then.

I would think that backwards electrons would cause all kinds of expensive problems in the first second that the current cursed through their wires, but what do I know?

Respectfully submitted this day,
Douglas C. Niedermeyer
Sgt at Arms

[ausnoelm]

If there was no fuse, the starter would spin, backwards! the ignition system would not provide spark though, let's say (somehow) you got the motor going, the polarity of the charge circuit would not allow a charge to the battery, that said, it is kind of technically possible to reverse the polarity of a battery with reverse charging, don't know if anyone would actually try, or if the charging system would not be toasted long before that happened, certainly your outboard charging system would be nice and crisp.

[ausnoelm]

OH, and I think you are saying your boat is somehow reverse polarity?? If that's what your saying, check it very carefully, because I seriously doubt it is!

[panasonic]

Hard to get a four stroke to run backwards...they are designed to run one way only.

I don't think your starter is hooked up with reverse polarity either.

Now a two stroke is a different story. Bombardier has had snowmobiles out since 1998 that when reverse is selected the engine slows down to almost a dead stop and then runs in reverse to back up the sled. The engine does not shut off while switching between fwd/rev/fwd.
The engine continues to charge as well when in reverse.

It works great, but weird when you first try It...

RER - RER is so widely accepted in the snowmobile industry most folks don't even remember what the letters stand for: Rotax Electronic Reverse. This is one slick piece of engineering. Sledders who used to pull/drag/tug their sleds around when the got in a tight spot (or wanted to unload from a trailer) could now push a button and go in reverse. We never knew what we were missing until RER was featured on Ski-Doo sleds beginning with the Tundra R and Touring SLE in 1998. When you push the RER button, the engine stalls, changes its directional rotation and the sled goes in reverse. All this with no weight penalty.

[rodbolt17]

back in the day the evinrude amplifier type systems had a anti reverse spring that would occasionally get left out or worn and the motors could and would run backwards.

the starter motor wont care, it is not polarity sensitive, the overrunning clutch in the starter drive wont spin the flywheel backwards.
if it is an inertia drive it wont come up at all.

it is how most trim motors work,you simply reverse the motor polarity.

if you go way back,and yes I have worked on them, most autos were 6v with a positive ground.

[99yam40]

The old diesel Case iron lug tractors we used in rice fields would fire up backwards if rolled backwards trying to go up a heavy incline if you did not keep it going forward.
the oil bath air cleaner became the exhaust pipe and blow oil out everywhere.

Never knew about the snow sleds running backwards to get reverse, but not many of them around here in tx

[oldmako69]

The genesis of this quirky thread is located here..

http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/f...g-th28012.html

And here...

http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/f...e-th28010.html

Since purchase, I've been dealing with a veritable shit storm of gremlins with this bote and the electrics have largely been left for last. That is to say that the engines, once started, now behave pretty well. Not perfect, but pretty well and with decent reliability. Good enough that I can move on to other stuff and actually try and FISH once in a while.

My initial "no-crank" issue has now migrated to the other engine and I aim to fix this issue in a more permanent fashion, starting with the ****ed up battery leads and the INOP auto bilge-pump switches.

Perhaps the minions at the factory simply slipped the red indicator over the wrong wire during install. I've run it about 150 hours since last August, so I figure that it must be sorta right, but it drives me nuts none the less.

Thanks for your inputsiz.

***Funny that the forum Comandante will allow "shit storm" but not d-cked-up.

[99yam40]

The genesis of this quirky thread is located here..

http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/f...g-th28012.html

And here...

http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/f...e-th28010.html

Since purchase, I've been dealing with a veritable shit storm of gremlins with this bote and the electrics have largely been left for last. That is to say that the engines, once started, now behave pretty well. Not perfect, but pretty well and with decent reliability. Good enough that I can move on to other stuff and actually try and FISH once in a while.

My initial "no-crank" issue has now migrated to the other engine and I aim to fix this issue in a more permanent fashion, starting with the ****ed up battery leads and the INOP auto bilge-pump switches.

Perhaps the minions at the factory simply slipped the red indicator over the wrong wire during install. I've run it about 150 hours since last August, so I figure that it must be sorta right, but it drives me nuts none the less.

Thanks for your inputsiz.

seems a volt meter would be easy to use to see which wire is positive if you do not think the red marker is correct

[boscoe99]

My Dad's Mercury tower of power back in the 50's/60's did not have a neutral. The motor was started in gear turning one way to go forward. You stopped the motor and restarted it so that it turned the other way, to go into reverse.

[zenoahphobic]

OH, and I think you are saying your boat is somehow reverse polarity?? If that's what your saying, check it very carefully, because I seriously doubt it is!

To add to that improbability, the standard starter motor would also require a " reverse" bendix gear, as when a standard starter motor is turned in reverse it would not throw it's gear up to engage the flywheel, and would just spin.
That's not to say that there are'nt bendix arrangements out there that pull the gear down to engage the flywheel gears and reverse rotation pushes it out.
Thus raising or lowering of the starter mount can overcome this. Although impractical on most outboards, a complete 180 degree rotation of the motor mount as seen as variants in cars and motorcycles would allow reverse rotation of the flywheel if desired.

[oldmako69]

seems a volt meter would be easy to use to see which wire is positive if you do not think the red marker is correct

Agree 100 percent. And that's pretty much the next step. What is muddying the waters is a persistent draw down of one battery even though all 'appears' functional and clean. I have a hunch that I may just have a bad battery in spite of a decent voltage reading.

What I don't understand is why the 'bad' engine won't crank even with both battery selectors on ALL, irrespective of one slightly less charged battery.

[panasonic]

You sir are a man of patience...all the trouble you have had with that boat and engines. If it were me I would have gotten in there long ago with the cable cutters and cut the whole lot out and started a new rewire....but that's just me.

Keep at it...you will get all straightened out eventually..fishing all the time...lol

[rodbolt17]

the old merc dock buster.
fastest thing on the water, if it started .

[oldmako69]

You sir are a man of patience...all the trouble you have had with that boat and engines. If it were me I would have gotten in there long ago with the cable cutters and cut the whole lot out and started a new rewire....but that's just me.

Keep at it...you will get all straightened out eventually..fishing all the time...lol

Its probably not as bad as I make it out to be, plus I have been remodeling my house and working on two old cars at the same time. So, some cans tend to get kicked down the road around here and the boat is the number one can. Oddly enough, if I run it often I have no problems with the electrics. But let it sit for a month, and there's hell to pay. And since it behaves much of the time, I am disinclined to rip out the old until I have a better idea of what's wrong.

I've managed to put over 100 hours on it in less than a year, so its not been completely inop. Just annoyingly so at times. It would appear that most of my fuel related issues have vanished. I've put about 25 of those hours in the last two weeks and the engines are behaving nicely, although my 5800 WOT RPM seems to have taken a flier. I'm seeing 5200 now but that is under much less than ideal condition. Namely, rough water which won't allow me to properly trim out the engines and the tabs. Which can steal a few hundred RPM. The boat quickly goes too fast for the conditions and I have to back off.

And now I've got company in town, so that means play on the boat, not wrench on it.

[pstephens46]

Its probably not as bad as I make it out to be, plus I have been remodeling my house and working on two old cars at the same time. So, some cans tend to get kicked down the road around here and the boat is the number one can. Oddly enough, if I run it often I have no problems with the electrics. But let it sit for a month, and there's hell to pay. And since it behaves much of the time, I am disinclined to rip out the old until I have a better idea of what's wrong.

I've managed to put over 100 hours on it in less than a year, so its not been completely inop. Just annoyingly so at times. It would appear that most of my fuel related issues have vanished. I've put about 25 of those hours in the last two weeks and the engines are behaving nicely, although my 5800 WOT RPM seems to have taken a flier. I'm seeing 5200 now but that is under much less than ideal condition. Namely, rough water which won't allow me to properly trim out the engines and the tabs. Which can steal a few hundred RPM. The boat quickly goes too fast for the conditions and I have to back off.

And now I've got company in town, so that means play on the boat, not wrench on it.

And this means YOU get to clean it and buy all the gas....Everyone else heads inside to cool off in the A/C....