NMEA 2000 to 2017 F200XB

[cmox51@aol.com]

I have seen this question asked already but could not find the answer. Sorry to be redundant. I just purchased my new boat with a F200XB. From the information I have acquired so far, The rigging kit used did not come with a network expander nor does it seem you can add one. It is a standard CL round gauges set up. I did note however there are blue and white wires in the harness that were labeled "GPS Conn." in a diagram that I believe is the same as my rigging. P/N 6Y8-0E83R-91-00 I am very familiar with CAN networks being a master technician for American Honda. Is there a wiring schematic or further information that I can get to help me ? Thank you in advance.

[boscoe99]

What is it that you are wanting to do?

The engine has NMEA 2000 data output leads. Blue and white. Depending upon how it is configured the system can be expanded darn near infinitely.

[fairdeal]

he's talking about the CL gps lead.
different blue / white than the CL data wires.

I think the only place they exist by themselves is in back on the engine connector.

probably has a y-splitter and an inline hub for the gauges
and needs a 3 port hub instead

[boscoe99]

The harness part through me off. I suppose. Don't really know.

As you know, the blue and white wires in the connector attached to the speedometer are for NMEA 0183 inputs.

I think he may be talking about NMEA 2000. But it is only a thought.

Rodnut says the PBS is confusing. For whatever reasons there are about as many NMEA 0183/NMEA 2000 questions. If not more.

If we knew where he was, and where it is that he wants to go, we might be able to suggest a road or two to take. And the type of vehicle in which to travel.

[cmox51@aol.com]

What I thought I would ask is if anyone had a schematic for the rigging harness that was used. I could figure much out from that. Specifically I want to know where the blue and white wires go from the motor connector and if the Yamaha CAN network can support more than what is currently connected. Is a gateway necessary or can you wire the CAN H and CAN L directly into a NMEA 2000 backbone ? Is it just a way to sell another component or will there be a signal loss problem ? I'm seeing junction connectors behind the dash in the harness that contain blue and white wires. It would make sense to me since they go into both gauges, this is the CAN H and CAN L from the motor to gauges containing the engine data. Since companies like Navico sell a harness that plugs directly into the connector at the motor and contain a NMEA 2000 connector at the other end, can one assume that the engine data is NMEA 2000 protocol ?

[cmox51@aol.com]

I apologize if my questions confuse anyone. I work with CAN networks everyday . On cars, A gateway is a component (usually your dash cluster) that contains multiple networks like FCAN (powertrain) and say BCAN (body systems, HVAC, security etc.) and acts as a bridge for the information between the networks. It is necessary because the networks have different protocols and speeds and can't communicate directly to one another. NMEA 2000 is much like OBD2 protocol in cars. You can plug any device that has this protocol and you can communicate with other devices on that network . I am wondering why Yamaha needs a gateway if the data coming from the engine is already NMEA 2000 ? Is the signal weak and needs amplification before it can be shared on the NMEA 2000 ? I would like to share my engine data on my MFDs without disconnection my CL gauges. Is this possible with the rigging kit that was installed ?

[fairdeal]

can you wire the CAN H and CAN L directly into a NMEA 2000 backbone

absolutely you can - i and many others have done it



you don't need a schematic for "regular Command Link" -
its just a plain vanilla NMEA 2000 network - using Yamaha's proprietary connectors.

Command Link Plus is a different story -
I would have to Google - does an F200XB have digital controls?
If your engine is mechanical controls you don't have to worry about CL+

With CL+ the Gateway is apparently needed. Not so with regular CL

[boscoe99]

Command Link Plus is a different story -
I would have to Google - does an F200XB have digital controls?
If your engine is mechanical controls you don't have to worry about CL+

With CL+ the Gateway is apparently needed. Not so with regular CL

Nope. But an F200XCB does. The C standing for Command Link Control. As in digital control.

I have been reading a bit about F200XB owners not being able to get engine date to an MFD without the use of a Gateway. Do you think it is the operator or has Yamaha changed the data output to prevent this?

[boscoe99]

I apologize if my questions confuse anyone. I work with CAN networks everyday . On cars, A gateway is a component (usually your dash cluster) that contains multiple networks like FCAN (powertrain) and say BCAN (body systems, HVAC, security etc.) and acts as a bridge for the information between the networks. It is necessary because the networks have different protocols and speeds and can't communicate directly to one another. NMEA 2000 is much like OBD2 protocol in cars. You can plug any device that has this protocol and you can communicate with other devices on that network . I am wondering why Yamaha needs a gateway if the data coming from the engine is already NMEA 2000 ? Is the signal weak and needs amplification before it can be shared on the NMEA 2000 ? I would like to share my engine data on my MFDs without disconnection my CL gauges. Is this possible with the rigging kit that was installed ?

Not without some serious cutting and splicing. And maybe a few more parts being needed.

Would be simpler to just install the components that are intended to get you to where you want to be. A harness from the motor to a hub. The hub powered by another harness. The hub feeding data to your gauges via some harnesses. The hub being a connection point for (1) a harness that runs to the NMEA 2000 netwwork or (2) a Yamaha Gateway that feeds engine data to your NMEA 2000 network.

Some of what you already have may be reusable.

With respect to feeding GPS speed data to your speedometer that can be done by splicing a small harness connected to the gauge to the NMEA 0183 output from your MFD.

[fairdeal]

Nope. But an F200XCB does. The C standing for Command Link Control. As in digital control.

aha

or has Yamaha changed the data output to prevent this?

interesting thought.
To do so,
it would have to be compatible with the extant universe of square Command Link gauges -
which we know operate without a gateway.

Unless they were able to exploit some hidden idiosyncrasy within square gauges....

btw, the thought occurred just recently that - whatever the Gateway is/does -

Yamaha must have essentially "built a Gateway in" to their round Command Link and 6YC gauges -
since those plug and play directly with the Command Link Plus "network"

[cmox51@aol.com]

thank you BOSCOE99 , that diagram is helpful. Starting to get clearer picture now. Do you have a diagram for the basic CL no multi hub ? According to the information I received My CL harness does not allow for a gateway to be added (p/n 6Y8-0E83R-91-00). I see the wires I was inquiring are NMEA0183 and are one way communication to the gauge only ? I would like to get the engine information onto the NMEA 2000 network for use by my MFD while still keeping my CL gauges. I was told I need to disconnect the plug at the motor and use the cable, such as the lowrance, directly into my NMEA 2000 backbone rendering my gauges useless. I find this difficult to believe.

[boscoe99]

thank you BOSCOE99 , that diagram is helpful. Starting to get clearer picture now. Do you have a diagram for the basic CL no multi hub ? According to the information I received My CL harness does not allow for a gateway to be added (p/n 6Y8-0E83R-91-00). I see the wires I was inquiring are NMEA0183 and are one way communication to the gauge only ? I would like to get the engine information onto the NMEA 2000 network for use by my MFD while still keeping my CL gauges. I was told I need to disconnect the plug at the motor and use the cable, such as the lowrance, directly into my NMEA 2000 backbone rendering my gauges useless. I find this difficult to believe.

If your boat is wired the way that I believe it to be wired it does not have a provision for getting engine data to an MFD, via a Gateway or otherwise. It is simply a less expensive way for a boat builder to wire the boat. To keep the gauges that you have now, plus get engine data to a device, the boat needs to be wired as per the illustration shown above.

I suspect this is your configuration below. There are no provisions for the connection of a Lowrance or similar type harness. The configuration with the hub provides for this. Or the Gateway.

Kinda like some Honda's have more features than others.

[cmox51@aol.com]

Also thank you Fairdeal as well. That what is I was thinking all along. What I was told from the dealer baffled me. They know what I do for a living . I think they just wanted to "upsell" me a bunch of unnecessary parts. My reasoning is, if the data coming from the motor on the blue an white wires are NMEA2000 already, why do you need a gateway? If you use a network expander and a NMEA 2000 network , It's redundant and a waste of components as well as money. MY thought was to wire the engine data wires into my NMEA2000 backbone (with connectors of course) and if necessary , from the NMEA200 to the gauges if the signal cannot be split wore than twice (for the 2 existing CL gauges) ? Any thoughts ?

[boscoe99]

The Yamaha system was designed and built so as to make it an easy way to configure a boat to accept Yamaha gauges. Plug and play depending upon what one wants.

There is no reason why individual wires can not be spliced into the main engine harness in the appropriate places and routed to an NMEA 2000 network. Those same wires can be spliced with other wires that go to the gauges.

By the same token, the NMEA 2000 network can also be done away with. Individual wires can be used. Spliced as needed. Plugged directly into the NMEA 2000 device.

Dealers have to be careful. Yamaha employees also. I don't. Someone takes shitty advice from a dealer and screws the pooch and they they want Yamaha to make it right. If someone asks me if it is OK to jump off of a bridge I say "have at it". Just don't ask me to clean up the mess.

[fairdeal]

MY thought was to wire the engine data wires into my NMEA2000 backbone

there are some NMEA 2000 limits for number of devices ("signal splitting")
and length of wire - but far beyond what you are doing.

you just need to tie the blue to the blue and the white to the white. No power leads.

as for the connections - here is how Yamaha constructed the Y-splitter to your gauges - elegant ? not