Are fuel treatments (like Seafoam or Gumout) worth it?

[oldmako69]

Am I wrong?

(Yes, that was a Big Lebowski reference in case you were wondering.)

"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an a$$hole!"

"All right then"

[rejesterd]

WOT every trip for several minutes.

Don't add fuel unless your gonna burn it

That makes sense to me. I'm not sure if you winterize your boat, but if you had to winterize it, would you run the engine dry before storing it? I thought about doing that last fall, but then became concerned about the injectors (or other things) drying up and breaking. So I just treated the fuel with stabilizer and ran Yamaha's EFI fogging oil through it for a few minutes. But if it's safe to run the engine dry and empty the fuel tank in the boat, I'd rather do that since it doesn't cost me any extra money.

[99yam40]

injected motors do not have the rail vented to atmosphere, so the fuel cannot evaporate.
treat the fuel and make sure it is everywhere in the system before storing

[rejesterd]

injected motors do not have the rail vented to atmosphere, so the fuel cannot evaporate.
treat the fuel and make sure it is everywhere in the system before storing

I'm not concerned that fuel left in the injectors is going to evaporate over the winter. I'm just wondering what damage can result if they are intentionally run dry? If none, I don't see a good reason to ever treat the fuel, because I can just dump it all before it gets old enough to cause any problems.

I realize this is probably a whole other thread discussion, but I'm just trying to understand why people are so concerned about treating the fuel in their modern outboards but not in their cars. The engines work generally the same way, so I don't really get it.

[scofflaw]

That makes sense to me. I'm not sure if you winterize your boat, but if you had to winterize it, would you run the engine dry before storing it? I thought about doing that last fall, but then became concerned about the injectors (or other things) drying up and breaking. So I just treated the fuel with stabilizer and ran Yamaha's EFI fogging oil through it for a few minutes. But if it's safe to run the engine dry and empty the fuel tank in the boat, I'd rather do that since it doesn't cost me any extra money.

I make up a ****tail in a separate jug. stabil, and a decarber. Run the boat till the engine quits on the main tank, then switch to ****tail jug for ride home.

get boat in its final resting place, disconnect gas jug, fire up engine, when its starts to run out of gas I start spraying fogging oil into throttle bodies. Engine quits, then I drain VST, and filters.

[99yam40]

Something to think about is that the pump in VST is lubricated and cooled by the gas running thru it as it pumps.
running out of fuel means no cooling or lubrication to that motor/pump
they put that pump in the Vapor Separator Tank so that it gets only liquid fuel to pump.

I would never make it purposely not get that liquid fuel while it runs

[rejesterd]

Something to think about is that the pump in VST is lubricated and cooled by the gas running thru it as it pumps.
running out of fuel means no cooling or lubrication to that motor/pump
they put that pump in the Vapor Separator Tank so that it gets only liquid fuel to pump.

I would never make it purposely not get that liquid fuel while it runs

Yes, that's what further googling also suggests.. so I think my conclusion is that you need to treat any gas that's going to sit in the tank or inside the engine for longer than 30 days or so. Otherwise, it's not needed. And don't run EFI engines dry.

[oldmako69]

Something to think about is that the pump in VST is lubricated and cooled by the gas running thru it as it pumps.
running out of fuel means no cooling or lubrication to that motor/pump
they put that pump in the Vapor Separator Tank so that it gets only liquid fuel to pump.

I would never make it purposely not get that liquid fuel while it runs

I am fairly confident that my Hi PSI fuel pump crapped out due to this exact problem. For whatever reason, my engine would not stay running at low power settings and the Hi-PSI pump was continually running without cooling and lube. As a result, the Hi PSI pump shat the bed. I replaced it (along with the Lo-PSI pump) and was rewarded with butter smooth ops.

I never let a two cycle engine run out of gas for a similar reason. No lube.

[rejesterd]

I make up a ****tail in a separate jug. stabil, and a decarber. Run the boat till the engine quits on the main tank, then switch to ****tail jug for ride home.

get boat in its final resting place, disconnect gas jug, fire up engine, when its starts to run out of gas I start spraying fogging oil into throttle bodies. Engine quits, then I drain VST, and filters.

I did something similar last fall. I ran a mix of fuel, stabilizer, and Yamaha's EFI fogging oil through the engine for 20 minutes or so. I did not spray directly into the throttle body though. I also didn't drain the vapor separator. The owner's manual doesn't even mention the vapor separator, so I didn't think to drain it. I can see the service manual tells you how to drain it, but it doesn't say why or when to do it.

[fairdeal]

The owner's manual doesn't even mention the vapor separator, so I didn't think to drain it. I can see the service manual tells you how to drain it, but it doesn't say why or when to do it.

there's a "sticky" post here on this forum - "Winterize, Off season Storage"

the post is a bit odd - guess it was written by a "mod"? -

but it includes a link to download a .pdf of a Yamaha "Marine Technical Guide" article
that IMO is helpful

[rejesterd]

there's a "sticky" post here on this forum - "Winterize, Off season Storage"

the post is a bit odd - guess it was written by a "mod"? -

but it includes a link to download a .pdf of a Yamaha "Marine Technical Guide" article
that IMO is helpful

I remember looking at this (or a very similar doc) last fall, but then I saw a video on Yamaha's website that instructed owners to not spray traditional fogging oil into the air intake, but instead run the new EFI fogging oil through the fuel lines instead. Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBlqjRQ5Ba0

Maybe they need to update that doc.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

My boat doesn't see storage.

If you use your boat very often and keep fresh fuel (no more than a month), you should be good.

I have a 60 gallon built in tank and with my F150, use approx 5 gallons a day(stop and start). IE, much of my fuel stays in the tank well over a month, closer to a year

I use RF regularly (since 2007) more so to keep the fuel system clean. Never had my VST apart, never yanked injectors, runs like a top.

I would strongly suggest running a stabilizer. Either "Gas Shok" or "K100".
All are not cheap..

I had a bad experience with Stabil years ago (varnish build up a MONTH LATER in the mower carb, float bowl using it)

If running RF and a fuel stabilizer saves me issues down the road, (especially carbed engines), to me, it's well worth it...

I run RF in EVERY engine I own, car, mower, generator, etc...And any fuel saved in the garage (for hurricane season) has Gas Shok in it.

Before I re-powered in 2007, my old Evinrude V6 150(carbed 2 stroke), clogged the jets from old fuel. Pulled them, cleaned, ran good, TILL the following weekend.. Clogged up AGAIN!..

Cleaned them, spoke to the marina, they recommended the "Gas Shok".
Put that in, NEVER had another clogged carb on that engine, NEVER..

So, for me, that $40.00 bottle (that does last quite awhile), could have saved me two full carb cleanings, two wasted weekends, etc..

Seafoam is pretty good, just not as strong as the RF (use it for storage mostly-just a tad poured down each cylinder, cranked over (not started) and spark plug re-installed.

[throrope]

For the low down, I suggest sending Rodbolt17 a PM. I'm with oldmako69 on the fresh fuel, but take it to the extreme.

I had ethanol issues with our 90TLR years ago and tossed the entire system upstream of the connection to the outboard. I then rigged a $26 electric solenoid fuel pump from rock auto with a 12V plug and fuel hose and replaced all straight lengths of fuel line with 3/8" ACR copper tubing. I pump all fuel from the boat into the truck, drain the bowls and filters and leave tanks open and upside down to dry between trips and off season. I replace the remaining short lengths of fuel line every two years or so in ten minutes for ten bucks. Haven't used fuel stabilizer and haven't had issue since. For me, no fuel means none to go bad.

On occasion more rare than I like to admit I'll toss in some carb cleaner or Marvin's Mystery Oil. Since my only experience is our 5:1 compression ratio old tech two-stroke that burns anything clean, I suggest religiously sticking to the owner's manual. Yea, the Ring Free is pricy, but a bargain for the few times used compared to hourly marine tech rates.

I suspect you never use more than ten or twelve gallons on a trip with that F50 and can't get to the ramp without passing a gas station. Based on this assumption, I suggest you consider doing same as me. Can't guide you on the fuel in the motor.

[rejesterd]

For the low down, I suggest sending Rodbolt17 a PM. I'm with oldmako69 on the fresh fuel, but take it to the extreme.

I had ethanol issues with our 90TLR years ago and tossed the entire system upstream of the connection to the outboard. I then rigged a $26 electric solenoid fuel pump from rock auto with a 12V plug and fuel hose and replaced all straight lengths of fuel line with 3/8" ACR copper tubing. I pump all fuel from the boat into the truck, drain the bowls and filters and leave tanks open and upside down to dry between trips and off season. I replace the remaining short lengths of fuel line every two years or so in ten minutes for ten bucks. Haven't used fuel stabilizer and haven't had issue since. For me, no fuel means none to go bad.

On occasion more rare than I like to admit I'll toss in some carb cleaner or Marvin's Mystery Oil. Since my only experience is our 5:1 compression ratio old tech two-stroke that burns anything clean, I suggest religiously sticking to the owner's manual. Yea, the Ring Free is pricy, but a bargain for the few times used compared to hourly marine tech rates.

I suspect you never use more than ten or twelve gallons on a trip with that F50 and can't get to the ramp without passing a gas station. Based on this assumption, I suggest you consider doing same as me. Can't guide you on the fuel in the motor.

Thanks. I like the idea of using an electric pump to empty the fuel tank for long term storage. Mine is only 11 gallons, but I'm not sure if I can easily remove it. If I can do it though, that'd be great. The fuel treatment costs do add up over time.. possibly hundreds of dollars over the life of the boat. So I don't want to do it if it's really not necessary.

Since I have a fuel-injected engine, I'm going to continue fogging it using Yamaha's directions on their newer "EFI Fogging Oil". This way, I only need to treat about 2 gallons of gas with stabilizer per season (which means a very small amount of stabilizer is needed). In other words, I only need to treat the gas & fogging oil mixture that I run through the engine just before draining the vapor separator (as fairdeal pointed out in Yamaha's Off-Season Storage doc) and storing it for the winter. I like that.

I guess my question now is: what's the shelf life of the Yamalube Fuel Stabilizer? (not Ring-Free, but the long-term stabilizer). I still have 1/2 a bottle from last fall that I haven't used.. hoping it stays good for more than a year.

[99yam40]

never seen an expiration date on any of these things