Battship....

[oldmako69]

New boat (to me) with issues. Zero documentation. No manuals etc.

Twin engines. Twin Batts. Twin Selectors (Off-1-All-2) switches. No isolators or any other voltage control devices that I am aware of. Boat is a 2005. My habit is to crank both engines on BOTH, and leave them there.

Today I started Eng No 1, but was unable to start Eng No 2 (Stbd) with both battery selectors on BOTH. I then checked the V on both. Batt 1 (Port) had done gone shat with a V of less than 12. Batt 2 (stbd) was fairly healthy in the mid 12.3-4 range, but by no means a powerhouse.

I let eng 1 idle a bit and checked the V at both Batts. Bat 1 was charging, but still well below 12V. Batt 2 was charging fine and showing over 13.5V.

After a while I tried to crank Eng 2 with both batts in BOTH. No crank, just a click when the starter engaged the flywheel. I let it idle about 30 mins. No change.

I DO NOT yet know how this mother is wired. I tried BOTH BATTS at 1. No crank.

I tried BOTH BATTS at 2. No crank.
I tried BOTH BATTS at BOTH. No crank.
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What the hell? I should be able to crank either engine from either battery...correct?

I finally physically swapped the two batts L to R and started No 2 using the batt selector at BOTH. But, I could not start No 1. Just a click.

------------------

Yanked the shatbat and will have it checked tomorrow and likely replaced.

Q. Why am I unable to use the batt selectors to shunt the damn Voltage where I need it?? This is totally unsat.

Q. Can you start a YAM 4 stroke and then disconnect the battery WHILE its running and use the batt to start the other? I used to do this in my 2 stroke youth without an issue, but I am unwilling to fry all those thousand dollar parts under this things flywheel.

[fairdeal]

trying to imagine the rats nest of (presumably) heavy cables you must have x-connecting those battery switches..

so you had one good battery -
when connected as batt 1, it started engine 1 -but would not start engine 2
when connected as batt 2, it started engine 2 - but would not start engine 1

did I get that right?

seems like a work day is in order removing & inspecting each cable/lug/connection

including, you are no doubt aware, the possibility of corrosion working its way, out of sight, from the battery lug back, hidden under the insulation jacket of the cable

[oldmako69]

trying to imagine the rats nest of (presumably) heavy cables you must have x-connecting those battery switches..

so you had one good battery -
when connected as batt 1, it started engine 1 -but would not start engine 2
when connected as batt 2, it started engine 2 - but would not start engine 1

did I get that right?

seems like a work day is in order removing & inspecting each cable/lug/connection

including, you are no doubt aware, the possibility of corrosion working its way, out of sight, from the battery lug back, hidden under the insulation jacket of the cable

Close, but no banana.

I could not get suitable amperage to Eng 2. No way shape or form or position of the switches. The current available would barely run the trim motor. It was only when I physically swapped the batteries themselves that I could get suitable juice to Eng 2. I forget the exact values, but the Port Batt was just under 12V, or near death. The Stbd Batt was 12.3, so in poor heath.

Your comment about the cables is spot on. It has been my intent since purchase to remove the two batt switches and to clean and inspect the lugs on the back, and to try and figure out how the boat is wired. As is stands now, I do not know which battery SWITCH is for which engine, but I do know that yesterday, the PORT (dead) battery fed the STARBOARD engine no matter where I positioned the switches and that just can't be right.

My BATT switches are mounted one above the other, vertically with no labelling and are quite far from the engines. All of the electrics reside in the center console and the cables are virtually untraceable once they disappear into the wire tunnel aft.


As I understand it -

A. I should be able to select both switches to '1' and start both engines and isolate battery 2 from use and charging.

B. I should be able to select both switches to '2' and start both engines and isolate battery 1 from use and charging.

c. And of course, I ought to be able to parallel the whole mess with both switches. in ALL.

For starters, I'm chucking the batt which tested at below 12V unless after a suitable charge Advance tells me that it's OK. I have my doubts however. I do not know how long its been in the boat, nor what state it was left in. I bought the boat in Aug of last year. I am inclined to just start with a new battery and run with some peace of mind.


Q. Is there an isolator of some sort on these engines? My last boat was a single inboard with two batts, a selector and an isolator. Or are isolators deemed unnecessary with two engines?

Q. Any guesses about why I was unable to get that motor started with both battery selectors in BOTH? Absent heavy corrosion, I am at a loss.

[pstephens46]

I don't know about switching battery cables while the engine is running. I have always heard that changing battery selection with switch while running could cause bad things to happen. A myth? Don't know.....

[oldmako69]

Typed a huge reply and it disappeared. Argh.

I was unable to get suitable current to Eng 2. I could get the trim motor to run, but barely. So, Bad V&A.

The PORT batt tested at just below 12.0, so near death.
The STBD batt tested at 12.3 -12.4V, so in poor health.

Eng 1 started just fine and was charging (according to the Vmeter on the YAM engine gauge which was reading 13.4ish volts). However, it was taking forever to charge the other battery. Corrosion?

Eng 2 would not start irrespective of either batteries switch location. The starter would engage the flywheel, but that's all she had to offer.

I ended up shutting off Eng 1 and physically swapping the batteries L to R.

With both selectors in ALL -
Now Eng 2 started immediately, and Eng 1 would not crank.


My battery selectors are mounted vertically and not labelled at all, so I don't know which one controls which engine / circuit.

Will charge the bad batt and haul to Advance for load test. Will probably just toss it and start with a new as I have no idea how old it is, nor what type of shape it was stored in. The boat sat for years. The batt could be ancient in spite of what I was told.

As I understand it -
I ought to be able to select '1' on both selectors and start both engines and isolate battery '2'.

I ought to be able to select '2' on both selectors and start both engines and isolate battery '1'.

I ought to be able to select ALL on both selectors and parallel the whole mess and get all available volts / amps. As of now, I am unable to do that.

I plan on removing both selectors and tracing the rats nest in an attempt to figure out who does what to whom. As it stands now, the PORT battery feeds the STARBOARD starting circuit, and trim motor and probably most everything else on that side.

It's going to be a PITA due to the tight space and the fact that all the cables run aft from the center console (in a tunnel) ~12 feet to the engines.

I hope to find significant corrosion somewhere that will explain why I can't get good volts and amps from one side to the other. This is unacceptable.

Lovin' this boat!

[fairdeal]

My neighbor struggled for several years with cranking/battery charging issues -
a setup with a lengthy run from the outboard to the batteries forward in the console

even went so far, as to replace the flywheel on the engine
(I have no idea what the "rationale" was for that)

eventually found that a previous owner had saved a few bucks using non-tinned "welding cable" for the battery runs.
Hidden corrosion, under the insulation, somewhere in the middle...

[FabricGATOR]

Step #1 DETERMINE (sorry cap loc) where the fault is. Use half split method.

I would unscrew (unmount) the battery switch that is connected to the engine that is not cranking and connect the positive battery wire from that engine directly to a known good battery with enough power to crank an engine.

I believe what you are going to find is that the engine battery wire is internally corroded and will need to be replaced.

Half split method is take the circuit that is giving you trouble and split it approximately in half (where convenient) then test to see if the fault is on one half or the other. Get it? keep Halfing and testing to zero in on the location of the faulty connection (high resistance)

ps. when you check voltage at a point as you described, you need to check it while you are trying to crank. (wattage = volts and current draw) Your multimeter does not draw any appreciable current.

[rodbolt17]

without a motor model number no one can say if you have built in battery isolators.
that being said battery select switch wiring is not at all a standard deal.
you would not believe the utter stupidity I have dealt with over the years.
time to trace it all out and find out how it is wired then make any cable repairs as nessasary.

[fairdeal]

this was a Perko switch posted some years ago - rivets were drilled out to open it up:

[

[amahaork]

Engines don't charge batteries just barely return what was taken. Try to charge batteries with marine charger 10 amp for each batery for 10 hr

[boscoe99]

Engines don't charge batteries just barely return what was taken. Try to charge batteries with marine charger 10 amp for each batery for 10 hr

What?

Maybe the engine does not charge a battery but the electrical generation system of an outboard motor can and does charge batteries.

Yamaha says the F225/F250/F300 Offshore models have 55 amperes available to charge a battery. Or batteries.

How can that much current not charge a battery?

10 amps for 10 hours using a marine charger or 55 amps for 1.82 hours using the motors' electrical generation system equals 100 amp hours. If my math is correct.

[boscoe99]

For those that are from the state of Missouri

[99yam40]

if wiring has a problem with starting it can also have problems with charging the batteries

[oldmako69]

OK, Lots of good info but unfortunately I already know most of it. Clearly I am going to have to start at the selectors and run every inch. The fact that its not charging satisfactorily coupled with its near dead state points a finger at either a bad cable or switch on the affected side. The fact that I am unable to use the GOOD batt to start the other side makes me think battery selector switch.

I'll try and address each post:

Fairdeal,
My last boat had automotive grade cables on the batts. I had to replace all of them. I am reasonably certain that "Perko" is shorthand for crap in Chinese.

FabricGATOR,
Thanks for the suggestion. I suspect that I'll find a mess of crap. Yeah ANGLER!

Rodbolt,
2005 F225TURD's. I would believe the crud, because both of my previous boats we so afflicted with non marine grade wiring and practices throughout.
Isolators or no? Where can I find info on YAM wiring practices in case I need to make some significant changes to this set up? IOW, it's not simply a filthy switch or bad terminal lug (which has allowed corrosion creep into the length of the run). My last (inboard single) was a two batt set up with a separate isolator. Once I got it right, it provided me with 10 years of virtually trouble free service. The batts had 5 years on them when I sold that rig and were still fully serviceable.

CaptSolo,
Why on earth whould I buy new batterie$$ without first determining if these are shot and without first fixing the charging issue? They were presented to me as "New" when I bought the boat last fall and they have given me zero issues to date, although the bad side has tested a tad lower than the good side...and now I know why. The other battery is fine. Yes, 12.3-4 is on the low side but they were stored in the boat all winter and have not been charged this spring. The boat hasn't been run more than 10 hours in the last 7 months due to my "other issues" with the engines. Consequently, I don't think that a 12.3-4 reading is reason enough to toss it. The bad battery has been on the charger all night and will be hauled to Advance for a load test.

Marine grade batter cable is what, $5 per foot? Of course I'll replace what is bad if necessary, but only if. Removal and re-run on this boat is going to be a PITA because of how it was plumbed at the factory. If I'm lucky, I'll only have to replace a selector switch once I determine which switch is for which engine, and which battery is No.1 and which is No. 2. As its wired today, they are opposite which makes perfect sense if you were to peer into the bilge and see how this boat was rigged at the factory. I am starting to think that the factory also contained a meth lab and that the worker bees were all high as kites.

Amarahork,
I over 30 years I have seldom had to use a battery charger to maintain my batts. A healthy charging system is all that's been required IF all the connections are squeaky clean and the charging system is putting out proper amperage. I do agree that a good blast with a HD charger each spring is a good way to start the season.

boesco99,
While not from MO, many many thanks for that chart. I figured that it would be at least 35A and hoped more. Good info and nice to know as I plan on using this boat 50 miles out. Any idea if my engines have isolators, and any on how they're wired? The fact that one battery is reasonably healthy and the other dead leads me to believe that I DO have an isolators and that my their circuit is operating properly.

99yam40,
Agree and I think that's what I have going on now.

On a brighter note, with the newly cleaned injectors the engines run GREAT at all throttle settings and top out around 5800 depending on trim, sea state etc. The engine that gave me shinola all along is no longer afflicted and is now my perfect engine. The other (previously perfect) engine is still an unknown as I have not had any time to run it since I pulled the VST. It did idle for about 20 mins this week, so I may be getting close. I won't be satisfied until I put 30-40 hours on them both and have zero issues.

I won't be able to dive into the battery issues until sometime after next week. I will post what I find wrong.

[FabricGATOR]

Please report what your final determination of fault was for the benefit of others who may search and read the post in quest of repairing their own Battship.

Myself, I would connect direct to a known good battery first, to determine if that engine is even capable of cranking... That would be my first half split.