Oh Boy...This Smell Ain't Good

[TownsendsFJR1300]

All I know is that foam sucks. I think it is a manufacturing crutch.

Until someone tells me otherwise.....

It's a good way to keep a heavy (when full) tank from moving about especially under rough seas, hull pounding, etc.

How else really could you secure a plastic or aluminum tank to a hull?

Even if you welded tabs to the tank and screwed them to the stringers, they'd either rip loose, come loose or the tank tabs would break.

Hulls filled with foam (un-sinkables), obviously can do this as the foam displaces the water and allows the hull to float even thou NOT water tight anymore...

Now, if you want to extend the life of the exterior of an aluminum tank (and get 40 years vs 20 years), powder coat the exterior of it... That's not terribly expensive and does hold up very well...

[pstephens46]

Wonder how Grady White or Regulator or other high end boats do it?

I understand it is structural but I believe it is a short term, cheap solution.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Wonder how Grady White or Regulator or other high end boats do it?

I understand it is structural but I believe it is a short term, cheap solution.

My neighbors Mako (older, very WELL built, heavy duty hull) had a foamed in tank. Over the top too.

He had some leaks, all on top, by the sender unit. We had to scrape the discolored foam from there for the repair.


Looks like they use EPOXY!!! http://www.greatgrady.com/forum/view...hp?f=3&t=15490

https://www.grainger.com/product/RUS...-Coating-3XH23

[Jason2tpa]

Scott...you may of missed a post I made last night. See below, especially in bold.

Has anyone utilized the Pascoe method when installing fuel tank. The article about this method is here: How to Install an Aluminum Fuel Tank : Boats, Yachts - Maintenance Repair and Troubleshooting

I like the idea of the pvc strips bonded to tank in order to elevate tank from coffin bed. But what concerns me about bonding the pvc strips to the coffin bed with 5200 is having to remove the tank in the future. Most of you have likely used 5200 to bond this or that. For those who have had the fun experience of breaking the 5200 bond, I've felt your pain. It's a tough task even when you have direct access to the bond. But how do you break the bond with no access???

If you had to remove the tank you'd have no way of accessing the bottom of the tank to chisel away the 5200 bond. And since it's bond is so amazing, if you pry the tank straight up you will take off the surface of the coffin bed thats adhering to the pvc strips. Kinda concerning, right?!

What are some other methods of packing the fuel tank to the coffin? After removing all of the foam in my fuel coffin there is no way I would use that stuff. There were pockets everywhere within the foam that was holding fuel residue.

A fellow member on my classic aquasport forum recently installed a new tank. He used the above mentioned Pascoe method, except he did not 5200 the pvc strips to the coffin bed (believing like me, this will pose a problem in the future). He secured strap rings to the bottom of coffin, 3 straps over the width of tank. It's something I'm considering because there is no way i'm foaming. No doubt foam works perfectly for its function. But it's wet. I witnessed this last night when excavating it from the fuel coffin. Small cells had formed within the foam and guess what was inside these cells....fluid...fuel to be exact.

[Jason2tpa]

Scott...you may of missed a post I made last night. See below, especially in bold.

Has anyone utilized the Pascoe method when installing fuel tank. The article about this method is here: How to Install an Aluminum Fuel Tank : Boats, Yachts - Maintenance Repair and Troubleshooting

I like the idea of the pvc strips bonded to tank in order to elevate tank from coffin bed. But what concerns me about bonding the pvc strips to the coffin bed with 5200 is having to remove the tank in the future. Most of you have likely used 5200 to bond this or that. For those who have had the fun experience of breaking the 5200 bond, I've felt your pain. It's a tough task even when you have direct access to the bond. But how do you break the bond with no access???

If you had to remove the tank you'd have no way of accessing the bottom of the tank to chisel away the 5200 bond. And since it's bond is so amazing, if you pry the tank straight up you will take off the surface of the coffin bed thats adhering to the pvc strips. Kinda concerning, right?!

What are some other methods of packing the fuel tank to the coffin? After removing all of the foam in my fuel coffin there is no way I would use that stuff. There were pockets everywhere within the foam that was holding fuel residue.

A fellow member on my classic aquasport forum recently installed a new tank. He used the above mentioned Pascoe method, except he did not 5200 the pvc strips to the coffin bed (believing like me, this will pose a problem in the future). He secured strap rings to the bottom of coffin, 3 straps over the width of tank. It's something I'm considering because there is no way i'm foaming. No doubt foam works perfectly for its function. But it's wet. I witnessed this last night when excavating it from the fuel coffin. Small cells had formed within the foam and guess what was inside these cells....fluid...fuel to be exact.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

No I didn't see that, but remember, the tank leaked as it was old /failed A good tank, NOT leaking, foam won't hold fuel as there is none.

I like the idea of the epoxy as posted for the Grady Whites...

The fuel tank folks probably can give you the best way to secure it W/O foam..

I have no idea how my tank is secured(60 gallons. I'll peek in the small access hole and see what I can tomorrow. Curious now...

[Jason2tpa]

A good tank, NOT leaking, foam won't hold fuel as there is none.

Yes and no. The foam won't hold fuel, if fuel isn't present. But what it will hold is water, saltwater to be exact. Even a perfectly water tight fuel tank compartment is still exposed to humidity. Which in turn becomes condensation, so on and so on.

Now this is no big deal so long as the tank is not is constant contact with moisture. Foam provides the surface contact point for this water.

Just some thoughts. Before this fuel tank mess I couldn't speak much about fuel tanks and their installation techniques. Read a lot past few days. Overwhelming consensus is foam is bad for aluminum tanks.

[99yam40]

all that weight being pounded around can do strange things to mechanical devices holding tanks in place.
the foam you found in there was it still holding the tank good and snug?
was it the proper foam for that job?
was it originally foamed or was that during the tank repair.
did they do a bad job with the foam causing the pockets or did =the fuel cause the pockets.

I am full of questions tonight?

[Jason2tpa]

the foam you found in there was it still holding the tank good and snug?

was it the proper foam for that job?

was it originally foamed or was that during the tank repair.

did they do a bad job with the foam causing the pockets or did =the fuel cause the pockets.

I am full of questions tonight?

Yes.

No idea.

Tank repair and/or when the previous owner replaced fuel hose (because it looks new)

This type of foam I know is the kind you pour in, then it hardens. I've never poured in foam, so I don't know how difficult it is to work with once it's poured. How would one prevent air pockets from forming within the foam if one of primary components of the foam in its pre-hardened state is air. Dunno. Let's just say it could have been done much better, though the tank was secure.

Yes.

[Jason2tpa]

the foam you found in there was it still holding the tank good and snug?

was it the proper foam for that job?

was it originally foamed or was that during the tank repair.

did they do a bad job with the foam causing the pockets or did =the fuel cause the pockets.

I am full of questions tonight?

Yes.

No idea.

Tank repair and/or when the previous owner replaced fuel hose (because it looks new)

This type of foam I know is the kind you pour in, then it hardens. I've never poured in foam, so I don't know how difficult it is to work with once it's poured. How would one prevent air pockets from forming within the foam if one of primary components of the foam in its pre-hardened state is air. Dunno. Let's just say it could have been done much better, though the tank was secure.

Yes.

[Jason2tpa]

I have a analog fuel gauge. Anyone have experience using this type of fuel sender, pictured below:





Pictured below is the type of sender I was using in the tank I just pulled. I wasn't very pleased with its accuracy (usually 1/4 off).

[boscoe99]

I have a analog fuel gauge. Anyone have experience using this type of fuel sender, pictured below:





Pictured below is the type of sender I was using in the tank I just pulled. I wasn't very pleased with its accuracy (usually 1/4 off).

Millions and millions have experience with that type of sender. Mostly unpleasant. That type of of sender has been around forever. Ancient technology. Referred to as a float on a stick.

For not a lot more money come join us with 20th century technology. Try one of these

CENTROID PRODUCTS - Computerized Tank Display - Electronic Senders - capacitive fuel gauges

[pstephens46]

I have a analog fuel gauge. Anyone have experience using this type of fuel sender, pictured below:





Pictured below is the type of sender I was using in the tank I just pulled. I wasn't very pleased with its accuracy (usually 1/4 off).

My sender is 1/4 off too. In the good direction....makes me feel so relieved when I fill up. Much better than suddenly relieving oneself after filling up...

[99yam40]

I know nothing about those probes, but I think Boscoe has talked about a capacitance probe fuel level gauge in the past.
i think it did not have a float, just used the liquid touching the probe.

never mind he already posted on it

[DennisG01]

I believe that foaming a tank is a little bit old-school, and a little bit "the easy way out" by manufacturers. Over time, there is GOING to be moisture accumulation between the foam and the tank. There's no way around it, it's going to happen. That moisture is going to eat away at the tank.

The same holds true for the PVC/rubber strips that you can place on the bottom. They need to be COMPLETELY sealed to the bottom of the tank so no moisture can get in between. Except for right in the middle - maybe a 3"-ish gap (where you don't put the strips) so bilge water can drain out. Using 5200 (or something similar) is a good way to go.

As far as securing it, it actually doesn't take nearly as much as most think. For example, you can use a few lengths of 1-1/2" PVC angle "iron" secured to the stringers and gently resting on the tank. The PVC angle doesn't even have to run the entire length of the tank. These will keep the tank "held down". As far as securing the tank fwd and aft, that can be accomplished through a combination of the fwd and aft bulkheads, along with a few, wide PVC strips for "spacers" (although not entirely necessary, secured with 5200 directly to the tank is probably a good idea). The tank should NOT be stuffed extremely tight into it's coffin. A little bit of wiggle room is good. If you can access the base of the fwd or aft edge of the tank, you can again use PVC angle.

You might want to check with Moeller to see if they have an HDPE tank already in their system that matches up with your space. They supply a lot of tanks to manufacturer's and you might get lucky that happen to have one "on file" from "X" manufacturer. They could supply you with a part number and then you would order it through a supplier/retailer for Moeller.

HDPE holds up very well to ethanol. Fiberglass tanks are the ones that have issues as ethanol eats away at the resins and causes engine issues.

All that being said... please don't ever "drain your bilge" of gasoline that collected in it onto the land or into the water. Yes, it's more work, but you could have gotten some containers (jerry cans) to drain the gas into by being a little ingenious. It ain't the environment's fault... don't pollute, man! OK, good-natured tongue lashing is over.

EDIT: I forgot to mention (and pardon me if it was mentioned above, already)... While I haven't had to personally use them, I've heard plenty of good things about Florida Marine Tanks... in regards to building an aluminum (or stainless) fuel tank for you.