intermittent failure to fill VST

[pstephens46]

OK...back from the dead...

To recap, Stbd engine would not idle and then eventually would not start no matter how much I squeezed and how firm that bulb got. The engine would however, run on ether so I knew that spark was not my issue. I surmised that the High PSI pump in the VST had shat the bed. Indeed, when I pulled the old one it was evident that someone prior to me had tried to pry the High PSI pump apart and disassemble it. There were small screwdriver "bend marks" all around its base.

I was in the middle of replacing the T-stats, anodes and getting my injectors cleaned. When I put the whole mess back together, I added a new Low PSI pump...

Yamaha 69J-24410-00,02,-03-00 also Mercury, 888251T02, 888251,T 8825 | eBay

and I added a new High PSI pump....

FUEL PUMP FITS YAMAHA 225 225HP 4 STROKE TURD TXRD TUR 2005 2006 AND LATER | eBay

I turned the key and was rewarded with immediate start and liquid smooth idle. The Hi PSI pump was likely failed and was the reason it would not start. The low PSI pump was likely failing and was the reason it would not idle. I let it idle (on trailer, with engines in the water) for an hour to perform a leak check.
Success?? I'll know over the next 50-100 hours.

But get this, the Port (good engine) was idling along happily and suddenly quit in the exact same manner that the Stbd had been doing all along! Because the cowling was off I could see the fuel level in the primary filter drop. It would drop a half inch and the engine would quit. I had a hell of a time repriming that filter with the NEW Yam squeezebulb. I retraced all my previous steps from tank to racor, and racor to engine. No faults or leaks found.

I swapped fuel supply from one engine to the other and the problem persisted. So, I just ordered another Low PSI lift pump and will install it this weekend.

The bulb thing was bugging me so I took my OLD Moler bulb and hooked it at the very extreme end of the fuel feed immediately in front of the first stage (engine) fuel filter and it had NO trouble pulling fuel through the old Yam bulb and the racor. So, I put the Moler back in.

Lots of crap here, but I think I may have finally gotten this straightened out. Will post up as I run the boat. The engines have only 150 hours though they are 12 years old. The boat sat in a hanger for most of that time unused. Some of my issues are from neglect, and some are from old age.

I would say neglect is the major component. Age not so much. All Fairdeal runs is E-10, but he runs 300+hours a year. Doesn't sit around and fester very long.

[rodbolt17]

plenty of Yamaha documentation on the evils of E fuels.
I replace E fuel RESISTANT line all the time.
some of it wont make two years.
Yamaha changed the fuel lines and portable tanks about 2010.
the first run was a serious sticker shock.

alchohol absorbs water.
don't believe it????

buy a 750Ml bottle of everclear.
mark the liquid level carefully.
pour out exactly 325Ml.
add exactly 325Ml tap water.

look at the marked line and tell me what you see.

I learned this basic earth science lesson in my ****s, got a whoopin .


when using E-fuels by the time enough water has accumulated for a conventional water separator to filter it the fuel is trash.

alcohol's molecular structure is much larger than water.
that is why it is so hygroscopic and can suck humidity directly from the air through the tank vent.

E-fuels cannot be piped only trucked.
ethanol cannot be piped only trucked.
yep it is that good of an organic solvent.
corrosive stuff it is indeed.

[oldmako69]

Which brand of E resistant fuel line do you recommend? When I inquired at both O'Reilly and Advance Auto, they were clueless.

As far as it for fuel, I have been using it ever since it showed up in Virginia as I have no other choice. Ever since I began using Startron my problems have lessened. But, I also pay a lot of attention to buying the freshest top tier fuel that I can. I don't buy marina gas, I carry all my gas to the boat. My last boat had inboard power and that gas would muck up my Holley in short order. I had a pair of carbs and I would alternate them between the boat and the rebuilder to minimize down time.

The injectors came back with a report from Mr Injector and they showed a fair amount of degradation and loss of flow. That was a very nice addition to his cleaning service. The flow readings corresponded with the engines inability to wind up. Needless to say I am optimistic that they alone are the reason the engines were only turning 44 and 5200. I have to imagine that the boat left the dealer properly propped, but I suppose that could be me just smoking ganja as well.

[pstephens46]

What the hell happened to Virginia? I leave Richmond in 1999 and the place goes crazy. Was a reliable red state. Apparently now liberal and environmentally wacko. No marine fuel and a million boats. Watch out FL!

Btw, it was our favorite place to live to date. I would move back if the real estate hadn't gotten so expensive.

[oldmako69]

Something else to consider, I figure in the 30-40 hours that I put on the boat since purchase late last August that the Stbd engine quit probably around 30-40 times, perhaps more. Each time, the High PSI pump in the VST eventually ran dry. And each time it ran without cooling flow from being submerged in fuel.

Just breaking wind here, but I can't help but wonder if the combination of water in the fuel and running it dry / hot added to its demise.

[oldmako69]

If the whole idea of Ethanol based fuel didn't come from Big Agriculture (ADM?) and Red State farmers, I might say that you are on to something. But E fuels are an environmental nightmare.

[scofflaw]

If the whole idea of Ethanol based fuel didn't come from Big Agriculture (ADM?) and Red State farmers, I might say that you are on to something. But E fuels are an environmental nightmare.

E fuels are here to stay... It's a poor mechanic that blames e fuel for his failure to maintain his equipment. Most of the country has no e choice, and were doing just fine dealing with it. Adaptation is the key to survival.

[oldmako69]

oldmako69

A blown 5-amp fuse (yellow) for the lift pump will cause the F225 to stall after running 1 minute after start up - every time.

I had this issue last summer.

I've been running on the same 5 Amp fuse now for 600 miles. Hasn't blown again. Carry a bag of 10 yellow 5 amp fuses now.

Fuse tested and swapped L to R.

[pstephens46]

If the whole idea of Ethanol based fuel didn't come from Big Agriculture (ADM?) and Red State farmers, I might say that you are on to something. But E fuels are an environmental nightmare.

Farmers bitch a lot about heathens and wave the flag. They certainly cannot complain about government transfer payments. On the dole...

[oldmako69]

It's the tan one. My 2005 engines have a little fuse schematic on the side of the flywheel cover.

[oldmako69]

Check this pic out. This is the High PSI motor which was in my Port (sorry - edit) VST. As previously mentioned, you can see where the PO, or his mechanic, attempted to pry the motor open.

But more interesting to me is the corrosion on the outside of the pump. I took that pump out of the VST this week, and it has been in my garage ever since. So, that's not fresh corrosion. The boat has large water separating Racors with sumps so this damage is not from water pumped or dumped into the tanks. If this isn't proof of ethanols affinity to suck water from the atmosphere then I don't know what is.

[fairdeal]

How does ethanol inside the pump suck water from the atmosphere (to rust the outside of your pump?)?

Check this pic out.
This is the High PSI motor which was in my Starboard VST.

Good morning all!

[oldmako69]

CaptSolo,

WRT to the outside of the High PSI pump, as I understand it, E10 holds water in solution. It can absorb from the humidity in the air. That air comes through the fuel tank vent. (See RodBolts post #18 this thread) That fuel then fills the VST as directed by the float / needle valve assembly. Therefore, that pump is continuously bathed in this E10 /water mix within the VST. Rust on the outside of the LOW PSI pump is nothing more than an optical annoyance. But corrosion on the high PSI pump will flake off and find its way into that that pumps intake and will then be delivered to your fuel injectors.

Additionally, the pump can rust from within. I read a thread on THT where a guy put a clear filter downstream from the High PSI pump and it was slowly filling with crud. He took a failed High PSI pump and cut it open. Once inside he found rust and corrosion. One manufacturer now offers a metal free carbon High PSI filter to combat this.

The intake side of the High PSI pump does not have a hose barb as the Low PSI pump does. It has an intake port which has a molded fitting for the final stage screen. The Low PSI pump is slightly larger in both diameter and length. If that's "very similar" than I agree with you.

The outside of my Low PSI pump has been treated with a coating and shows zero corrosion.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Take a small container(say a tuna fish can), fill it halfways with fresh e-fuel.

It'll be nice and clear initially...

Let it sit some(depending on the humidity). You will see it literally cloud up with water absorption.



Third video down is worth a look:

Demonstration | Fuel Additive | K-100





.

[99yam40]

If every time you put gas in to your boat tank you are also putting water in due to the way the tanks at fuel stations are then I could understand why they will not allow e 10 over there.

Or are you saying your boat is the one letting that much water into your fuel system