USCG Compliant Nav Lights

[Jason2tpa]

This thread doesn't concern yamaha outboards, but what the heck, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I'll be installing a bow mounted *****ing motor here shortly. I have limited space on the uppermost level of the bow surface. However, if I removed the bow mounted navigation lantern it would free up space. I could install a rub rail light or below rub rail side mounted lights. And this is what led me to the discovery I'll share with you.

According to the USCG Navigation "Rules of the Road", the term "height above the hull" means height above the uppermost continuous deck. With respect to position of bow navigation lights for vessels less than 39ft, the rule states "the sidelights of a power-driven vessel shall be placed at a height above the hull not greater than three-quarters of that of the forward masthead light."

What's my point? Rub rail navigation lights and the below rub rail side lights are illegal. Yet these lights have recently become an upward trend, some boat dealers even install these lights to butter up the sale.

Does anyone have these types of bow lights installed? And if so, ever have issues with marine patrol?

[fairdeal]

I'm not following your explanation, Jason

but then, I tried to have a look through the "Annex" - and I'm still reeling.....

what I'm seeing is:

- A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may, in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.

- the all-round light of a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall be carried at least one meter higher than the sidelights.

- The all-round light shall be so placed as to be above and clear of all other lights and obstructions

[pstephens46]

What's the masthead light on a 20ft boat? Anchor light on back?

[DennisG01]

I've certainly seen deck-mounted side lights many times. But this is the first I've heard of rubrail or below-rubrail mounted lights. I went to Taco's site, and sure enough, there they are. This is a link to their rubrail-mounted ones: Marine LED Lights: Rub Rail Mounted LED Navigation Light Set 4 1 2 @ tacomarine.com According to them, it meets USCG and ABYC requirements, but it looks like you need to very exact in your installation/placement.

[Jason2tpa]

I'm not following your explanation, Jason

but then, I tried to have a look through the "Annex" - and I'm still reeling.....

what I'm seeing is:

- A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may, in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.

- the all-round light of a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall be carried at least one meter higher than the sidelights.

- The all-round light shall be so placed as to be above and clear of all other lights and obstructions

What I was trying to convey is how common these rub rail bow lights are now, and also how common below rub rail side lights are being used. According to USCG code, these are not legal. Quite frankly, I had no idea they were illegal until I started researching my options for replacing my bow mounted nav light.

The all around white mast light is standard, a must have for all vessels under 39ft. In regards to side lights, in order for these to be to code, they would have to be installed above the rub rail on a near vertical surface. Well, center console vessels under 40ft do not have a vertical surface above the rub rail. It's the rail, then horizontal deck. So if I'm reading this Annex correctly, if you have side lights and they are not installed on the uppermost continuous deck (the lights mounted ON this uppermost deck), they are illegal.

Here's a look at the actual Annex pertaining to location of navigation lights, thumbnail pdf. The other pdf thumbnail is a USCG Saftey Alert addressing positioning and types of code adherant navigation lights.

[Jason2tpa]

I've certainly seen deck-mounted side lights many times. But this is the first I've heard of rubrail or below-rubrail mounted lights. I went to Taco's site, and sure enough, there they are. This is a link to their rubrail-mounted ones: Marine LED Lights: Rub Rail Mounted LED Navigation Light Set 4 1 2 @ tacomarine.com According to them, it meets USCG and ABYC requirements, but it looks like you need to very exact in your installation/placement.

I know the exact Taco lights you're referring to. They are sweet. But you tell me, take a read of the USCG Annex I just posted and let me know if I need to re-read.

[Jason2tpa]

I've certainly seen deck-mounted side lights many times. But this is the first I've heard of rubrail or below-rubrail mounted lights. I went to Taco's site, and sure enough, there they are. This is a link to their rubrail-mounted ones: Marine LED Lights: Rub Rail Mounted LED Navigation Light Set 4 1 2 @ tacomarine.com According to them, it meets USCG and ABYC requirements, but it looks like you need to very exact in your installation/placement.

Also, Taco's "Meets ABYC-USCG requirements for both sail and power boat designation" might refer to power boats over 39ft. I don't know what the code is for side lights on larger vessels. I skipped over that section.

[DennisG01]

I don't know if I'd call the use of them "common", that might be an exaggeration. But I suppose it depends on the area. I've worked part time in the marine industry for nearly 30 years and this is the first I've heard of them.

If it was me, I'd give Taco a call and ask them about it. Tell them what you found and see what their answer is. I do know that they are a good, reliable company. There may be more to the rule than what you are finding. If you're still not sure, try contacting the USCG or a local USCG Aux. I contacted the Aux once about a macerator question and they were very helpful - they contacted the USCG and then got back to me.

Taco says "for use on boats up to 30 feet", and then in another line they reference the ABYC/USCG. I don't know if they're related, or not.

I see what you're saying, but it might be better to go right to the experts than trying to figure it out ourselves.

[Jason2tpa]

What's the masthead light on a 20ft boat? Anchor light on back?

The white all-around light located at or near the stern. It's suppose to be a certain height above the side lights.

[Jason2tpa]

If you're still not sure, try contacting the USCG or a local USCG Aux. I contacted the Aux once about a macerator question and they were very helpful - they contacted the USCG and then got back to me.

That's exactly what I did earlier today. Left a message on their voicemail.

[pstephens46]

I know a few Key West models around here where they were mounted below the rub rail. Set into the hull with really nice stainless shrouds. A 17 foot flats boat for example. Neighbor has one. Always admired it...

[Jason2tpa]

I know a few Key West models around here where they were mounted below the rub rail. Set into the hull with really nice stainless shrouds. A 17 foot flats boat for example. Neighbor has one. Always admired it...

That is a perfect example. The side lights are not mounted on the uppermost continuous deck. And I agree, looks great!.

[pstephens46]

That is a perfect example. The side lights are not mounted on the uppermost continuous deck. And I agree, looks great!.

Wonder if my neighbor might sell it...

[Jason2tpa]

Update:

Ran into 2 FWC officers I'm friendly with and asked them to clarify the USCG bow light regulation. Here is the jist of it...if you have side lights mounted IN the rubrail or BELOW the rubrail, they (FWC) would not cite you. They both seemed more concerned with an unobstructed 122° light, which they would cite you. However, they would not say with certainty that if you have either one of these bow mounted side lights that any other law enforcement agent would not cite you since rubrail and below rubrail lights are not technically legal.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As I re-call, my neighbors old Mako 21' had two separate bow lights mounted on the deck, maybe 2' rearward from the "nose".

If you have enough room, might be an option...