more crankshaft sleeve questions

[fairdeal]

continuing with the topic Chuck raised of the F150/200/225/250 Speedy Sleeve

I've been poring over the parts listing for the F225:
(changes noted in red)





The chart above reflects what Boscoe explained in the other thread:

beginning April 2008:

- "Collar" added, which also required:
- change in crankshaft
- change in oil seal
- change in oil pump (contains the new seal)


Question:

For a PRE 4/2008 built engine, after installing the repair sleeve -

what replacement oil pump part # is to be used ?

[boscoe99]

As noted in the document below, folks also need to maintain situational awareness as to the crank shaft that is installed in their motor.

[fairdeal]

Crystal clear! Thank you.

odd IMO about the way they handled that.

Seems the part # for the oil pump in 4/2008 did not follow their convention:
the "-13300-" part should have changed, not the "-01-"

As they did with the crankshaft.

(also curious what caused the "-xx-" change in the oil pump in 2007)

[boscoe99]

Crystal clear! Thank you.

odd IMO about the way they handled that.

Seems the part # for the oil pump in 4/2008 did not follow their convention:
the "-13300-" part should have changed, not the "-01-"

As they did with the crankshaft.

(also curious what caused the "-xx-" change in the oil pump in 2007)

With Yamaha parts identification methodology most parts of the same general type will carry the same five digit code. ***-13300-XX-XX in the case of an oil pump. The first three digits will indicate the specific model to which the pump was used on. 63P-13300-00-00 in the case of the F150. If and when some physical change is made to the pump then the first two digits after the five digits will change. 00-00 to 01-00 if it is a minor change and 10-00 if a more major change.

Your F225 is a 69J model. If you look up the oil pump for your model it will use a 69J-13300-00-00 oil pump. The F30 is a 6AW model. It uses a 69W-13300-00-00 oil pump.

Most crankshafts will use a ***-11411-XX-XX for the five digit number. On your motor it is a 69J-11411-00-00 crank shaft. There will be exceptions to the rule from time to time.

Capiche?

[boscoe99]

(also curious what caused the "-xx-" change in the oil pump in 2007)

I have tried to teach you how to fish and to stop giving you fish. I try and I try and I try and it is not enough. My teaching skills are suspect. I have got to do better.

The answer lies in the parts catalog. Look at the detail parts that fit within the oil pump assembly. One of the oil seals changed from a 63P type to a 6AW type. With the change of an internal part number the assembly part number needed to be changed. From -00-00 to -01-00. Which tells the parts man that the parts are fully interchangeable. If it were a change from -00-00 to -10-00 it would probably not be interchangeable.

Let me help you of the inquiring mind to get started. See below.

[fairdeal]

Boscoe, I very much appreciate your patient guidance.

In the example you show above (F150)
its clear the 2008 change in oil pump from -0-00 to -01-00 is due to the change in oil seal.

But the F225 had a prior change in 2007 - from -00-00 to 01-00
and then the 2008 change to 00-02 coincident with the seal change.

And I can't see a reason for that 2007 change in oil pump part...

[boscoe99]

I was just messing with you. You have an interest in motors and a desire to learn. And you are genial. I appreciate that.

Some times it is easy to spot the reason for a Yamaha part number change. Some times it is not. There could have been a change to the housing of the oil pump. Since the housing part number is not known to us (part is not procurable by consumers) we can't tell by comparing part numbers.

I don't know why my wife does what she does oft times. I have simply learned to live with it. Some things are simply not knowable.

[99yam40]

Boscoe, I very much appreciate your patient guidance.

In the example you show above (F150)
its clear the 2008 change in oil pump from -00-00 to -00-01 is due to the change in oil seal.

But the F225 had a prior change in 2007 - from -00-00 to 00-01
and then the 2008 change to 00-02 coincident with the seal change.

Your trying to confuse people by putting thye 01 in the wrong place

[boscoe99]

My reading skills are so poor I did not even notice.

[fairdeal]

Your trying to confuse people by putting thye 01 in the wrong place

My apologies - I made a typing mistake.

I certainly was not "trying to confuse" anyone.

The point I was attempting to get across is an apparent vagary in Yamaha's part numbering.

as Boscoe has stated many times, including earlier in this thread :

"...the first two digits after the five digits will change.
00-00 to 01-00 if it is a minor change and 10-00 if a more major change. "


the 2007 change from 69J-13300-00-00 to 69J-13300-01-00 DOES seem to be a "minor change"

and the 69J-13300-01-00 able to be used on all F225s back to 2002.



However - the 2008 change from 69J-13300-01-00 to 69J-13300-02-00 is NOT "minor" -

since that pump can only be used on crankshafts with the factory installed "collar"

[boscoe99]

If folks will simply order by original part number what is used on their particular motor by serial number then they will get the correct part, if and when the part has been changed.

Order the -00-00 if that is what came on a specific serial number motor and you will get a -01-00.

Order the -01-00 if that is what came on a specific serial number motor and you will get a -01-00.

Order the 02-00 if that is what came on a specific serial number motor and you will get a -02-00, unless that part number has been superceded in which case you will get the superceded part number. Which it has.

Yamaha makes it easy by letting a user plug in his engine serial number at the Yamaha parts catalog section online. It will take him to the parts book for that specific motor. Then just order what the parts book says to order.

[pstephens46]

How is the sleeve sealed against the crankshaft? What prevents oil from sneaking down in between sleeve and shaft?

[fairdeal]

seems like its a pretty tight "press (mallet) fit"

[fairdeal]

So many aspects of this fascinate me:

here's the photo gsdanno1 posted of his F150:

[url=https://postimg.org/image/arr6e12tz/]

As we can see from the wear marks, that oil seal is a"double lip" design

But - it looks to me - like the Yamaha "repair sleeve" is not long enough to go under the lower lip

So post "repair" you are relying on just half the seal...

[cpostis]

So many aspects of this fascinate me:

here's the photo gsdanno1 posted of his F150:

[url=https://postimg.org/image/arr6e12tz/]

As we can see from the wear marks, that oil seal is a"double lip" design

But - it looks to me - like the Yamaha "repair sleeve" is not long enough to go under the lower lip

So post "repair" you are relying on just half the seal...

Hmmm... I wonder what the complete Yamaha bulletin says about installing the sleeve? Could it be that you are not to bottom out the flange on the sleeve to the crankshaft? You are just to drive it enough to ensure you cover the mating seal area on the shaft? SKF or Timken, can't remember which or both, says you can cut the flange off the sleeve if it interferes with the application. However, this image of a F225 crank shows the grooves from the seal further back! Go figure!

[IMG]F225Crank by Charles Postis, on Flickr[/IMG]

Only your experienced Yamaha Master Tech knows for sure! Common sense should prevail.