2002 DX150TLRA Ignition -Timing - Number of sparks per cylinder

[captainj]

I checked the timing on the other cylinders to see if timing was correct. On old cdi ignition boxes they use to fire the wrong cylinder so when you were checking with timing light you would see a different cylinder firing than the one you were checking.
The other cylinders advance just like #1 cylinder when the throttle is opened up.
So I can't understand why the are not the same at idle.
I thought about the o2 sensor being on #1 also. Maybe that would provide a little protection against leaning out the other cylinders don't know.
Thanks

[captainj]

Come on guys, anybody have more input. Can anyone with an ox66 please check timing on #1 like you should and check another cylinder to see if they are the same or different. This engine fires all cylinders at idle. The other cylinder's TDC marks are on the flywheel. I think the pulser coils are mounted at 7 BTDC thats what the timing defaults to when ecm is not happy. So to me that means that the ecm is con*****ing the timing at idle with input from CPS, CTS and the TPS. I just can't understand the timing being different on the cylinders, why?
Is Rodbolt on vacation, He could probably shed some light on this.
Still need help.

[rodbolt17]

dunno.
other than the pulser coils also fire the injectors.

it should only spark once per revolution.
unplug the yellow wire at the ECM bullet connector and see it placing it in bypass mode changes it.

[captainj]

Ok, Unplugged yellow wire all cylinders went to 7 BTDC and fuel mixture went rich at idle.
When engine was in cold start mode all cylinders advanced to TDC when it was warming up.
I starting think that it maybe this is the way it works, don't understand the reason for having different timing setting at idle.
Thanks,

[99yam40]

looks like you need to wait for Rodbolt to post back.

not sure it is normal for your motor to do what it does

[captainj]

I not sure of anything right now. Rodbolt said the pulser coils fire the injectors also, so I am assuming that the timing for the injectors is also affected. I was hoping someone would check their timing and report back. I don't want to buy pulser coils and it be the same thing, if that's the way they are supposed to work

[99yam40]

so wait for Rod to post back

[captainj]

Somebody please help!
Thanks

[captainj]

Does anyone know if there is someone at Yamaha that could answer my technical question about the timing issue. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[pstephens46]

Call Kennesaw Ga support line

[99yam40]

Ok, Unplugged yellow wire all cylinders went to 7 BTDC and fuel mixture went rich at idle.
When engine was in cold start mode all cylinders advanced to TDC when it was warming up.
I starting think that it maybe this is the way it works, don't understand the reason for having different timing setting at idle.
Thanks,

Idle timing will be different than WOT timing, but I have never heard of different cylinders having different timing from the others at the same time and RPM

If Rod or anyone else here does not have an answer make the call to see what Yamaha says

[zenoahphobic]

Idle timing will be different than WOT timing, but I have never heard of different cylinders having different timing from the others at the same time and RPM

If Rod or anyone else here does not have an answer make the call to see what Yamaha says

An engine needs to "start" somewhere, get feedback and adjust things, get feedback from those adjustments, then adjust..... and it goes on. Adjustments are a reaction to something that already happened i.e. there is constant prediction of the future based on the past.
Now this normally happens quickly without notice. However inputs to an ECU have "times" assigned to them. E.i. there are many situations where it would be silly to change things rapidly, averaging goes on (over many cycles).
Maybe in this situation the ECU is getting ahead of itself. Say the cylinder number one being timed is the cylinder the ECU regards as it's reference, then receives sensor inputs , changes the timing for the subsequent two cylinders, something is amiss (faulty/out of range/specification), and by the time number one comes round again it sets that ignition to the default settings. And then does this every cycle.
Also, the timing pulses you see are limited to your eyes ability to see changes - and therefore it may appear that it is firing every time but it may just be an average of times. You also may limited by your equipment used.

So get a completely different timing light and see if what you see changes, if you have nowhere to go from here.

[rodbolt17]

now we have determined there is no pulser coil issue we can move along.

myself I would suspect the test equipment.

why are you checking the timing to start with?

a double fire wont hurt anything as long as the first fire was at the correct time.

[99yam40]

The timing on #1 cylinder is 3 ATDC all other cylinders are around 7-8 ATDC

I have been dealing with unstable idle speed.
Thanks for your help

I just got the tach so I am not sure it is working properly. Maybe be random signals. But something is going on. Idle speed will speed up a little bit then it will slow down.
What would be a good diagnostic tach?

Rod looks like unstable idle speed

[rodbolt17]

last thing I would check for an unstable idle is ign timing.
I would check TPS CPS CTS O2 feed backs and lift pump failures or maybe even fuel rail pressure LONG before I got out a timing light.
I don't think I have used the timing light on a fuel injected outboard in maybe 10 years.

it is simply not nessasary and as all ign timing components are FIXED the only way it can change is something failed.

if the regulator filter clogs it raises fuel rail pressure and leads to an over rich condition.