F90 connector/harness repair questions

[oldbay616]

i am no stranger to chasing down EFI gremlins... i am not a mechanic but would say a more advanced DIY'er than the average... i have wired a complete gm 350/4l60e trans harness from scratch for a v8 swap into a jeep... however there was much more literature on it and the packard connections were much easier to come by.

So i get a boat with a 4stroke fuel injected yamaha (08' 90FTXR) because they were supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread... well in the middle of shrimping season i started having the stuck ISC valve symptoms.. diddled with it for a while but it was intermittent at first.. took it to my wifes uncles shop: no codes, ran fine for 30 minutes worked as it was supposed to blah blah. took it right from his shop to the boat ramp. wouldn't start couldn't get it to idle in neutral.. could open the throttle blades pushing in the neutral button and would run fine at about 1000-1200 rpm but as i backed it down idle got uglier and would die before i could get into neutral and back into gear...from everything i read made sense ISC was bad. found a used one off F75 though the body was different, the electrical part from the torx screws up was the same..put it on wouldn't work... took it to the place i bought it charged me 90$ diagnostic fees and told me it was bad and gave it back to me said they could tell because of the resistance was bad across the poles(what is also interesting is that yamaha does not give resistance values on this valve that i can find , and the current valve in the motor and the other 2 i have all have the same resistance values which makes me wonder if the other 2 do actually still work)..... so i bought a new one and installed it worked perfectly.. for about 10hrs of use then back to the old problems... (called the place i bought it and asked why it would stop working after only 10hrs, their response was "uhhhh not sure never had to replace one".. i about lost it)
anyways was worried ecu was bad.. thats when i found this thread and this rodbolt character, searched his name and the phrase ISC. and read him basically say the same exact thing hundreds of times over the corse of many years.. got the yds software.. wouldn't make any noise during the 3 second cycle... had no continuity on two pins of the connector... cut the ISC connector from the harness to find the two wires had broke inside the shielding maybe a 1/4" from the terminal... soldered new wires to the terminals and crimped on butt connectors temporarily... and now it works....

So i m going to bypass the original wires right to the ecm connector... now the wiring i have is copper and i have miles of it from my previous wiring shenanigans..and the original harness wires are aluminum...

so my questions are:
will the copper have any effect on the function of this valve?
and is the whole harness aluminum wire?
are there any other problem areas with the harness other than this valve?

i hear my father in my head saying to me ,"why would you only replace four wires when you know the rest of the harness is old and its going to break somewhere else"
well my answer as it usually is, if it aint broke don't fix it... though i CAN do it does not mean its FUN or i WANT to do it.. and the trout bite right now is ON FIRE....

but i will rewire the harness from scratch if it continues to foul up i refuse to spend 500sum$ on the yamaha harness. when the terminals are just over a dime a piece. and i already have a buttload of wire.

after some research i found
the connector to the ISC valve is a SUMITOMO 6189-0694 and the terminals and seals

SUMITOMO.jpg
Screen Shot 2016-06-28 at 2.32.01 PM.jpg

and the ecm connector is a JAE MX23A-34S-1 and corresponding terminals..

Screen Shot 2016-06-28 at 2.31.13 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2016-06-28 at 2.31.32 PM.jpg

the website is corsa-technic.com if anyone is interested... thanks y'all

[boscoe99]

The connector for the ISC valve on the F90 is a known hot spot issue. Apparently when removing the cowling it can snag on the wire for just a moment. Over time the wire fatigues and fails. Might be a permanent failure or might be an intermittent failure. Might be easy to find or a biatch to find. Wires broken within the insulation can be hard to find.

Now that you have done your repair you might want to help restrain the wire harness so that it can't get caught when the cowling is removed.

I am somewhat familiar with Yam outboards and have never seen or heard of aluminum wire being used. Only copper. Tinned or untinned copper sometimes but copper nonetheless.

[oldbay616]

maybe its tinned wire...how would you tell the difference.. it seemed to have more and thinner strands than the equivalent gauge of copper wire... my father in law was a boat mechanic his wheelhouse is older johnson evinrude 2 strokes... he said chrysler and forces had aluminum wire that broke all the time... so that was my assumption... so then would there be a significant difference between tinned wire and bare copper wire

[boscoe99]

maybe its tinned wire...how would you tell the difference.. it seemed to have more and thinner strands than the equivalent gauge of copper wire... my father in law was a boat mechanic his wheelhouse is older johnson evinrude 2 strokes... he said chrysler and forces had aluminum wire that broke all the time... so that was my assumption... so then would there be a significant difference between tinned wire and bare copper wire

Take a strand of the wire and use the blade of a sharp knife to gently scrape it with. If you start seeing a copper colour it is copper wire with a thin coating of tin on it.

I am only familiar with the use of aluminum wire in airplanes. To save weight. Have heard about its use in homes and some problems that can occur when making connections with it. Just have never seen it in a Yamaha.

[99yam40]

try to solder it,
aluminum will not stick
tinned copper will

[oldbay616]

so does anyone know would the broken harness have started to burn up the ISC valve?

after i rewired the harness and i had just run the static test and heard it clicking which it wasn't before. so i took it to the ramp today put it in started right up in and out of gear no problem, docked the boat and cut it off to park my truck... got back to the dock started back up and was idling ugly put it in gear and got worse let it idle for a while and eventually stalled....
so brought the boat back home,
plugged up to yds and no codes
ran the static test and it clicked like normal.
got it to start again and idle but rough- ran the active test it revved up fine and stalled as it came back down...
started it back up and tried to let it warm up but started idling worse and stalled.

i read if the valve it self gets above 200* its failed or failing.. i touched it and it was pretty hot but i could keep my fingers on it.. i don't have a thermometer..

intake pressure was 21"hg
rpm 760
tps voltage .9
7.2 degrees

the ISC was between 30-40%. while idling

this is the 3rd ISC I've been through...Im trying to figure out if the harness was causing them to fail
or is the ECU bad causing them to overwork and fail

[99yam40]

are you sure any of the ISCs were bad?
with the bad wire ,maybe you just thought the valves were bad.

Not sure the ISC on the motor right now is bad

[oldbay616]

well i hooked up the other 2 isc and they all seemed to cycle with the stationary test... but the old two i can not get the motor to idle... it tries to turn over but won't run... the newest one will run and idle but very poorly.
when i run the stationary test on all the valves when it returns to 60% the pintles are all at different lengths the newest valve is the furthest extended..

[oldbay616]

here are some data numbers from when i got it to run again but very poorly they were a few hours apart

Save date,July 08 2016,
ECM No.:,6D88591A11,

Diagnosis,
,Code,Item,Result,Condition,
,13,Pulser coil,Normal,,
,15,Water temp sensor,Normal,,
,17,Knock sensor,Normal,,
,18,Throttle position sensor,Normal,,
,19,Battery voltage,Normal,,
,23,Intake temp sensor,Normal,,
,28,Shift position switch,Normal,,
,29,Intake press sensor,Normal,,
,37,Intake air passage,Normal,,
,44,Engine stop lanyard switch,Off,,
,49,Over cooling,Normal,,

Diagnosis Record,
,Total hours of operation,151,
,Code,Item,Occurred,
,37,Intake air passage,140.8,
,23,Intake temp sensor,141.4,
,29,Intake press sensor,141.4,

Engine Monitor,
,Monitor Item,Result,Unit,
,Engine speed,726,r/min,
,Intake pressure,37.51,kPa,
,Intake pressure,11.02,inHg,
,Atmospheric pressure,1016.1,hPa,
,Atmospheric pressure,30.1,inHg,
,Ignition timing,TDC,deg,
,Battery voltage (12-16),13.50,V,
,TPS voltage (0.5-4.5),0.992,V,
,Throttle valve opening (0-90),7.4,deg,
,ISC valve opening,38,%,
,Fuel injection duration,2.60,ms,
,Water temperature (below 90),57.9,°C,
,Water temperature (below 194),136.1,°F,
,Intake temperature (below 70),46.5,°C,
,Intake temperature (below 158),115.7,°F,
,Engine stop lanyard switch,OFF,,
,Shift position switch,ON,,
,Oil press switch,ON,,
,Dual engine system switch,OFF,,

Data Logger[Engine operating hours according to engine speed],
,Engine speed,Time[h],
,- 1000 r/min,70.0,
,1000 - 2000 r/min,33.7,
,2000 - 3000 r/min,9.2,
,3000 - 4000 r/min,6.1,
,4000 - 5000 r/min,29.8,
,5000 - 6000 r/min,3.0,
,6000 - 7000 r/min,0.0,
,Engine hours,151,

Data Logger[Data comparison graph],
,Engine speed[r/min],Battery voltage (12-16)[V],TPS voltage
(0.5-4.5)[V],Water temperature (below 90)[°C],Intake pressure[kPa],Oil
press switch[0:OFF 1:ON]
,2100,14.58,1.80,64.2,89.3,0,
,2200,13.77,2.09,64.2,95.3,0,
,800,13.62,1.00,32.9,41.0,0,
,700,13.62,0.98,39.5,41.0,0,
,650,13.48,0.98,51.9,41.5,1,
,700,13.55,0.98,46.5,44.9,1,
,1500,14.06,1.15,62.5,45.4,0,
,550,12.67,0.98,48.7,47.4,1,
,800,13.40,0.98,44.0,42.0,1,
,1100,14.14,1.00,60.8,30.6,0,
,650,13.70,0.98,61.7,35.0,1,
,800,14.14,1.00,59.3,33.6,1,
,550,13.11,0.98,54.4,43.9,1,




Save date,July 08 2016,
ECM No.:,6D88591A11,

Diagnosis,
,Code,Item,Result,Condition,
,13,Pulser coil,Normal,,
,15,Water temp sensor,Normal,,
,17,Knock sensor,Normal,,
,18,Throttle position sensor,Normal,,
,19,Battery voltage,Normal,,
,23,Intake temp sensor,Normal,,
,28,Shift position switch,Normal,,
,29,Intake press sensor,Normal,,
,37,Intake air passage,Normal,,
,44,Engine stop lanyard switch,Off,,
,49,Over cooling,Normal,,

Diagnosis Record,
,Total hours of operation,151,
,Code,Item,Occurred,
,37,Intake air passage,140.8,
,23,Intake temp sensor,141.4,
,29,Intake press sensor,141.4,

Engine Monitor,
,Monitor Item,Result,Unit,
,Engine speed,679,r/min,
,Intake pressure,40.70,kPa,
,Intake pressure,11.89,inHg,
,Atmospheric pressure,1010.8,hPa,
,Atmospheric pressure,29.9,inHg,
,Ignition timing,BTDC 2,deg,
,Battery voltage (12-16),13.00,V,
,TPS voltage (0.5-4.5),0.987,V,
,Throttle valve opening (0-90),7.2,deg,
,ISC valve opening,58,%,
,Fuel injection duration,2.97,ms,
,Water temperature (below 90),48.0,°C,
,Water temperature (below 194),118.4,°F,
,Intake temperature (below 70),52.5,°C,
,Intake temperature (below 158),126.5,°F,
,Engine stop lanyard switch,OFF,,
,Shift position switch,ON,,
,Oil press switch,ON,,
,Dual engine system switch,OFF,,

Data Logger[Engine operating hours according to engine speed],
,Engine speed,Time[h],
,- 1000 r/min,70.1,
,1000 - 2000 r/min,33.7,
,2000 - 3000 r/min,9.2,
,3000 - 4000 r/min,6.1,
,4000 - 5000 r/min,29.8,
,5000 - 6000 r/min,3.0,
,6000 - 7000 r/min,0.0,
,Engine hours,151,

Data Logger[Data comparison graph],
,Engine speed[r/min],Battery voltage (12-16)[V],TPS voltage
(0.5-4.5)[V],Water temperature (below 90)[°C],Intake pressure[kPa],Oil
press switch[0:OFF 1:ON]
,700,13.62,0.98,39.5,41.0,0,
,650,13.48,0.98,51.9,41.5,1,
,700,13.55,0.98,46.5,44.9,1,
,1500,14.06,1.15,62.5,45.4,0,
,550,12.67,0.98,48.7,47.4,1,
,800,13.40,0.98,44.0,42.0,1,
,1100,14.14,1.00,60.8,30.6,0,
,650,13.70,0.98,61.7,35.0,1,
,800,14.14,1.00,59.3,33.6,1,
,550,13.11,0.98,54.4,43.9,1,
,600,13.40,1.00,60.8,39.5,1,
,750,13.70,0.98,67.5,39.5,1,
,550,13.55,0.98,74.0,51.8,1,