Lowrance HDS7 displaying incorrect engine temperatureon my Yamaha F150

[boscoe99]

Scotty - irrespective of your current problem -
you might find it interesting to see what your Lowrance shows when the Yamaha actually goes into "alarm" mode.

(of course, as you have been reading, the exact means of "faking" the ECU could be challenging)

My F225 outputs the alarm "notification" via N2K - and the Garmin will display it.

When the alarm icon appeared on your Garmin did you observe the actual oil pressure value at that time to determine if the alarm was being set at the correct point?

Maybe the Garmin alarm icon was displayed at too low of an oil pressure? Without checking how would you know? What if the alarm pressure per Yamaha is to be 70 psi and your Garmin alarm icon is displayed at 69.5 psi? Wouldn't that be disconcerting?

Back to the laboratory for you sir.

[fairdeal]

When the alarm icon appeared on your Garmin did you observe the actual oil pressure value at that time to determine if the alarm was being set at the correct point?

Maybe the Garmin alarm icon was displayed at too low of an oil pressure? Without checking how would you know? What if the alarm pressure per Yamaha is to be 70 psi and your Garmin alarm icon is displayed at 69.5 psi? Wouldn't that be disconcerting?

haha no.

Although I am intrigued by Scotty's N2K issue per se, and would be bothered by it myself,

I'm comfortable trusting that the Yam engineers selected a wide margin of safety on those alarm setpoints.

And at least at this moment, I'm not feeling the urge to develop a "calibration curve" of my thermosensor!

With my oil pressure alarm test, I removed the sensor from the block but left it electrically connected (plugged the hole in the block of course).

So it was indeed "measuring" the zero psig that the Garmin displayed

[boscoe99]

I just noted an anomaly that you need to talk to Garmin about. Immediately.

Their display indicates psi. You rightly point out that it is psig. We don't therefore know if the Garmin is psia or psig.

14.7 pounds difference could mean the difference between an engine failing or not.

In the aviation business there is a problem with too much information. Pilots are literally flying around with their heads down looking at data (with their head figuratively up their arse) and forgetting to look out the window to see what there is that needs to be seen.

FAA - What happened at the time of the crash Mr. Pilot?

Mr. Pilot - I was fixated on why my temperature gauge was reading one degree higher than what it usually reads. I did not pay attention to the trees coming up at me. Damn those trees. It is all their fault.

[tmann45]

I have the interface cable plugged into a Yamaha multi hub system setup, resistor terminator plugs are installed on both the NMEA2000 backbone system and the Yamaha multi hub system.
Scotty

Memory is a little fuzzy since it was 6-years ago. When I first hooked up my N2K to the Yamaha Command Link I used a home made jumper between the Yamaha Hub and my N2K backbone. I also had terminating resisters on both systems, I think 2 on each. I had problems with the data transfer to N2K until I changed to the Yamaha Command Link Plus gauge and kept one Yamaha hub (had two) CL to feed the N2K one hub CLP for the Yamaha Display.

I don't know what YDS would show since the eBay one available will not work on the F250XCA (Offshore model). But the CLP gauge the Garmin and the Lowrance all show the same data.

Is there any guidance included with the Lowrance cable on terminating resistors?

[boscoe99]

Memory is a little fuzzy since it was 6-years ago. When I first hooked up my N2K to the Yamaha Command Link I used a home made jumper between the Yamaha Hub and my N2K backbone. I also had terminating resisters on both systems, I think 2 on each. I had problems with the data transfer to N2K until I changed to the Yamaha Command Link Plus gauge and kept one Yamaha hub (had two) CL to feed the N2K one hub CLP for the Yamaha Display.

I don't know what YDS would show since the eBay one available will not work on the F250XCA (Offshore model). But the CLP gauge the Garmin and the Lowrance all show the same data.

Is there any guidance included with the Lowrance cable on terminating resistors?

I think that having both the CL hub with two resistors and the NMEA 2000 network having two resistors would not be kosher. My recollection is that when using the CL hub without the Gateway then one of the Hub resistors needs to come out and so too does one of the resistors in the NMEA 2000 network.

[boscoe99]

haha no.

Although I am intrigued by Scotty's N2K issue per se, and would be bothered by it myself,

I'm comfortable trusting that the Yam engineers selected a wide margin of safety on those alarm setpoints.

And at least at this moment, I'm not feeling the urge to develop a "calibration curve" of my thermosensor!

Where is the fairdeal innovative and adventuresome spirit that we are used to seeing?

Just a small can of oil to dip the thermosensor into. Also in the oil will be a good thermometer. Heat the oil with your torch and record the temperature on the thermometer, the electrical output from the potentiometer and the temperature displayed on your Garmin as the temperature of the oil increases. When the temperature gets to 266 degrees F is the alarm activated on both the motor and on the Garmin?

Should not take more than 15 minutes or so. I will check back later in an hour to see how you got on.

[fairdeal]

the major challenge would be the referee temperature indicator;

unless I'm overlooking something, I've nothing at hand for any higher than 220 F. Not sure what other possibilities I have.

That sensor is interesting in its long and extensive use by Yamaha -

according to boats.net its been used on hundreds of models of outboards, waverunners and jetboats, starting with a 1990 250 hp 3 cylinder outboard

[99yam40]

the major challenge would be the referee temperature indicator;

unless I'm overlooking something, I've nothing at hand for any higher than 220 F. Not sure what other possibilities I have.

That sensor is interesting in its long and extensive use by Yamaha -

according to boats.net its been used on hundreds of models of outboards, waverunners and jetboats, starting with a 1990 250 hp 3 cylinder outboard

Did they make a 3 cylinder with that much HP?

[zenoahphobic]

The thing to keep in mind is that the OP doesn't primarily want to replicate the Yamaha alarm points and shutting down to idle, he wants an earlier warning, or atleast see the change that may alert him to go a little easier not at limp mode to a place where he can investigate.

Two , I've never needed to heat a thermal device past water boiling point. Using oil ( what type?) and a flame heater might be a bit risky.

Three, I too although ignorant worry about the bus, hubs and terminator resistor combination. Would it be helpful to alter the position of the temp on the bus? Could it be possible that this bus is overloaded? Too many devices? Try removing one or more and see what the temp does?

[99yam40]

an electric deep fryer with cooking oil will do the job.,
they hit 350F to 375F with no problem

May have to turn off and on to make it move more slowly to get readings

[boscoe99]

Did they make a 3 cylinder with that much HP?

Six inch bore. Five inch stroke.

[boscoe99]

[QUOTE=zenoahphobic;118086]The thing to keep in mind is that the OP doesn't primarily want to replicate the Yamaha alarm points and shutting down to idle, he wants an earlier warning, or atleast see the change that may alert him to go a little easier not at limp mode to a place where he can investigate.
/QUOTE]

If there is no concern with replicating and seeing when the alarm point will be triggered what's the point in monitoring the temperature?

Is the concern when the temperature gets to 62 degrees C? When it gets to 85 degrees C? When it gets to 105 degrees C. When it gets to 125 degrees C?

Yamaha's position is if the temperature is below the alarm threshold there is no problem. If the alarm sounds there is a problem.

[zenoahphobic]

[QUOTE=boscoe99;118089]

The thing to keep in mind is that the OP doesn't primarily want to replicate the Yamaha alarm points and shutting down to idle, he wants an earlier warning, or atleast see the change that may alert him to go a little easier not at limp mode to a place where he can investigate.
/QUOTE]

If there is no concern with replicating and seeing when the alarm point will be triggered what's the point in monitoring the temperature?

Is the concern when the temperature gets to 62 degrees C? When it gets to 85 degrees C? When it gets to 105 degrees C. When it gets to 125 degrees C?

Yamaha's position is if the temperature is below the alarm threshold there is no problem. If the alarm sounds there is a problem.

I presume a normal engine has a considerable margin between its maximum operating temperature and the danger or alarm temperature when the engine says enough and slows itself down. That is there is a gap or a significant degree range that it never enters unless a fault is emerging.

I guess we need to know that. However at WOT max load that can be seen. The alarm temp are reasonably known. Just a guess , somewhere between 150 and 189. A significantly high temp.

It is not an issue seeing small degree changes but significant rises and the rate of that rise.

[99yam40]

I believe the whole point of having a gauge that tells you temp is that you can see how the motor runs under normal conditions and if it gets out of those normal temps there is something wrong.

But as others have said after running for hours and hours or days on end at normal temp you get lax at watching it often enough. That is where the alarm and RPM mode comes in handy. alarm goes off or if that fails then the RPM reduction still alerts the operator to respond properly

[zenoahphobic]

At risk of hyjacking this thread, your reference to an aviation crash as result of pilot giving to much attention to guages:

This called information overload, the pilot should know how to use his guages. Most of it should occur by pheriferal vision.

Most times the FAA cannot ask the pilot what he was doing- because he would be dead.
If there was concern about this pilot error, the black box should record head position. Does it? Our football penalises players who don't have there eyes on the ball in a contest.

So use of guages requires discipline and the understanding of the usefulness of the information. An alarm only,does not prepare you to possibly avoid the pending problem.

And good point Yam... Guages are there to teach you what is normal! So that your brain can immediately recognise what is not normal .