Lowrance HDS7 displaying incorrect engine temperatureon my Yamaha F150

[boscoe99]

My simple brain just cannot understand why one of the thermoswitches closing would not set the alarm.

The temperatures that will close a thermoswitch versus the temperature required for the thermosensor to set an alarm are so far apart it does not make sense.

Are you sure that you connected the pink and the black on the engine harness and not the pink and black from the thermoswitch together?

[scottcmb1965]

How is the data being relied upon? At what engine temperature is the user (you in this case) supposed to be concerned with? Does Yamaha say this anywhere? In my particular case the data is being relied upon due to some circumstances and environments the motor is running in, there are few various GOOD reasons around the world why "users" rely on "data monitoring" its part of being a good driver or captain or RACER and looking after their investment which ever the case, but the reasons why people want to monitor data is not the discussion here nor is it for you to question somebodies reasons why!
No! Yamaha doesnt state at what temperature to be concerned with, but In the past I have read some of your replies to various topics and you yourself have said that the SM is not always clear and full of ALL information and that some deducing is sometimes needed. So in this case its one of them, I can deduce from the "Checking the Thermoswitch" section (section 8-page14) and the temperatures that the switch switches on and off at, the normal operating temperature range in the Manufacturers design is anywhere between 68C-90C (154F-194F) and that anything higher than 84C-90C (183F-194F) is when things are starting to get a bit warm and an investigation is needed as to the reason why the motor needs to be looked at. That thermoswitch is telling the ECU that things are starting to get a bit warm here.... so lets keep an eye on it.... which is basically the same thing I'm doing as a driver reading a gauge!!

Do you know the engine temperature at which the alarm will sound based on what the engine temperature sender is telling the ECU? As the SM states it goes into "Limp" mode in when the engine temperature reaches 130 degrees C or higher (266 F), the thermoswitch switches on between 84C-90C (183F-194F) and switchs back off again at 68C-82C (154F-194F)
Where did you take your temperature measurement fromYou need to learn how to read.... it was stated back in my first posting plus also "Fair Deal" pointed it out earlier to you aswell!!

You can always make a temperature correction chart so that you can back into the YDIS temperature from the Lowrance temperature.

Silly suggestion

[scottcmb1965]

The thing that matters is if the warning horn sounds and the motor goes into RPM reduction mode. In which case turn off the darn motor. What is seen in the form of a temperature reading on a gauge does not matter a wit.

When you as a driver of any type of vehicle, don't you keep an eye on your gauges? or do you just rely on a vehicle to go into "Limp" mode to tell you there might be a problem arising?....... don't you keep an eye on your fuel gauge in your vehicle?...... or do you just let it run out of fuel for it to tell you that you need to fuel up???

[boscoe99]

I do monitor my gauges. The more of them the better. For general indications only.

What I don't do is to get hung up on the fact that one day a motor is running at 210 degrees F and then the next day it is running at 211 degrees F. Or that a pressure gauge is indicating 85 psi on one day and then maybe 83 psi later in the day. Or that a fuel quantity gauge is indicating 43 gallons in the tank when the boat is off plane and indicating 54 gallons when the boat is on plane.

Five high quality digital gauges from five different manufacturer's will rarely if ever indicate the same exact information.

I surely would not get my panties in a wad over some non-Yamaha MFD displaying a value that is 12 degrees or so difference between the temperature indicated on a laptop computer.

If you believe the Yamaha YDIS data to be correct seems to me you are at the wrong message board. This is about Yamaha stuff. Your little girly like bitch should be directed towards Lowrance.

[scottcmb1965]

I do monitor my gauges. The more of them the better. For general indications only.

What I don't do is to get hung up on the fact that one day a motor is running at 210 degrees F and then the next day it is running at 211 degrees F. Or that a pressure gauge is indicating 85 psi on one day and then maybe 83 psi later in the day. Or that a fuel quantity gauge is indicating 43 gallons in the tank when the boat is off plane and indicating 54 gallons when the boat is on plane.

Five high quality digital gauges from five different manufacturer's will rarely if ever indicate the same exact information.

I surely would not get my panties in a wad over some non-Yamaha MFD displaying a value that is 12 degrees or so difference between the temperature indicated on a laptop computer.

If you believe the Yamaha YDIS data to be correct seems to me you are at the wrong message board. This is about Yamaha stuff. Your little girly like bitch should be directed towards Lowrance.

As I have observed in the past with your posts...... you have a habit of not staying on topic and don't read properly!! and then start waffling off in different directions...and then during the coarse at times you add sarcasm..... is this something you chose to do to make yourself look BIG AND GRAND to others???..... if it is the case... go to a mirror and take a good look at yaself....... or go back and re read a lot of what you have said in some of your replies you may one day see what others see!!... I Started this thread as a pure and simple question as to "Has any one noticed or encounted the difference I have discovered between the readings of the temp on the MFD and YDS and if they new of a solution!!....... its obvious from what you have posted so far that you truly don't have anything constructive to add, you don't have an answer to the original question nor encounted the problem before.
To come back with a reply of "What difference does it make whether its 1 or 2 degrees difference" is only proof that you DONT READ!!! the information that was provided.
I posted on this YAMAHA forum for a reason and seeing that I am running a YAMAHA I posted on here for the possibility that others might of encounted the same problem in the past, isn't that what forums are for???. so where is the problem there?.... Don't worry I have contacted Lowrance aswell ( waiting on a reply at the moment) and if they come back with a solution I was going to post there response back on here for others to see and learn from
Here is a thought.... how about in future when you read a new thread and you don't have any knowledge to offer for a constructive reply to help the OP.... keep ya mouth shut and move on to the next new posting... pretty easy isn't it!!!
... "Little girly Bitch"..... what... are you ****ager or something? FFS
It comes across that you don't like it when someone stands up to you!!...... Don't try and stand over me bud..... it doesn't work!!!!
Go BIG NOTE yaself on some other thread!!!... and that was being polite for the forums sake..... in person it would have been just TWO words said to you!!

"FairDeal" thanks for what you have discussed so far, Looks like "Boscoe" could learn a thing or two from you.

Cheers
Scotty

[rodbolt17]

and you are all missing a simple point.
a Yamaha is not a Yamaha is not a Yamaha.

they made minor variations in the ECU mapping between models.

couple that with poorly translated manuals and this is what you get.

on the 12* difference on the lowrance?
if the thermoSENSOR agrees with the infrared temp gun I would call lowrance as Yamaha wont help at all.

or I would simply watch it and only worry if todays reading was way off from yesterdays.

on the thermoSWITCH, some F225 will alarm if the switch closes,not all will.
on the ones that will it will set the audible but not the visual.

I don't think the F150 will alarm for just the temp SWITCH.
none ever have for me anyway.

part of the PDI is testing the alarm and checking the audible and visual indicates,the PDI sheet is seriel numbered to the motor and considered a legal document by Yamaha.

so over the years I have had to make calls to Kennesaw about how to make it work.
never ever have they been able to help me I usually have to figure it out on my own.
have not been beat yet.

removed an old Z250 and installed an SHO250 a few weeks back on a ranger bass boat.
had to marry the new engine to rangers aftermarket tach and two red led's for the oil and overtemp visual.

called Yamaha cause the procedure in the tech guide did not work.
Kennesaw called me back and said it could not be done.
ticked me off.
30 min later I had tested both visuals.
it can be done.

[zenoahphobic]

Scotty, have you heard from Lowrance?
I would not be happy with a 12 degree difference.
You're in NZ, if your service is as bad as to what I've heard in Aus is, and therefore suspect no help from them.
If you're stuck with the situation, I would atleast "redline " it for the critical temp. Not sure how you would indicate on a digital display?
I'd calibrate by taking the sensor out and pop into increasingly heated water and take readings when it is becoming too hot, you may get the Lowrance to agree closer(I don't know). You atleast can note that number the Lowrance displays, as alarm to you.
Otherwise just take it as useless. Unlike a car, in a boat things can come at you from all directions, coupled with considerable bounce and bright light conditions, one sometimes can only rely on brief glimpses on guages. It would be important that they are atleast accurate!

[scottcmb1965]

Scotty, have you heard from Lowrance?
I would not be happy with a 12 degree difference.
You're in NZ, if your service is as bad as to what I've heard in Aus is, and therefore suspect no help from them.
If you're stuck with the situation, I would atleast "redline " it for the critical temp. Not sure how you would indicate on a digital display?
I'd calibrate by taking the sensor out and pop into increasingly heated water and take readings when it is becoming too hot, you may get the Lowrance to agree closer(I don't know). You atleast can note that number the Lowrance displays, as alarm to you.
Otherwise just take it as useless. Unlike a car, in a boat things can come at you from all directions, coupled with considerable bounce and bright light conditions, one sometimes can only rely on brief glimpses on guages. It would be important that they are atleast accurate!

Thanks Zen

yes I have heard back from them and they stated that this is the first time they have heard of this problem. They asked for some more information so I am waiting on a reply from them on that.

12 degrees difference is what I first noticed when it got to idle temperature running it at home here........ then when I ran the boat out on the lake for testing, that's when I noticed that as the motor got to a higher operating temp under load the differencial increased!!! eg: at idle YDS and actual was 62 degrees and the Lowrance displaying 50 degrees...... under load at 4500 rpm the actual was 78 degrees on the YDS, lowrance 58 degrees!!! ..... At that temp its a 20 degree difference!!!...... and one time when actual was 83 degrees, lowrance showed 60 degrees... 23 degree difference.

Lowrance did state that they said it was strange, that they recon there is no calculating logic with the data the MDS is receiving for the display from the NMEA2000 network that all it does is just display what it reads. They did suggest that I check with Yamaha for any interface cable updates, but in my reply I told them that I'm not running a Yamaha branded interface cable..... I'm running the "Lowrance" cable....lol...... they also asked what version software I was running on my HDS....... so I sent that info and am waiting to hear back from them.....

I have been using gauges for years to monitor whats going on with my engines in my boats, eg: fishing craft, waterskiing craft and racing craft...... was the usual analoge gauges with the selectable set points to trigger a driver attention warning light..... and believe me...... its saved a few engines over the years ( particularly when racing) from oxygen weed blockages and pumice granuals getting all through and blocking up water passages and tracks, or sticking thermostats open........ but seeing I have the HDS I thought....hmmmmm..... this could be ok to use instead of going to the hassle of installing a heap of other aftermarket stuff.

Cheers
Scotty

[zenoahphobic]

With those figures you can plot what might be going on. It appears there is some linear relationship that vaguely looks a bit like that the Lowrance might be using a Fahrenheit relationship with the Yamaha Celsius, but in a half sought of way. I.e. by extrapolating those figures, the base(32 to 0) is half and the final say boiling point(212 to 100) is very roughly half, if you regard them as Fahrenheit degrees.

If you could get a further comparative figures this would show you more, but I would be a bit cautious with that mathematical approach.

The above just a thought, there should be base adjustment and a correction to the ratio of the relationship if indeed there has been some mistake in regard to units used. The problem may be entirely with the software.

Another thought I have is how the Lowrance loom is installed, particularly how it is, if it is , terminated. I don't know much at all in this regard but am aware of number of installation difficulties with these systems.

[scottcmb1965]

With those figures you can plot what might be going on. It appears there is some linear relationship that vaguely looks a bit like that the Lowrance might be using a Fahrenheit relationship with the Yamaha Celsius, but in a half sought of way. I.e. by extrapolating those figures, the base(32 to 0) is half and the final say boiling point(212 to 100) is very roughly half, if you regard them as Fahrenheit degrees.

If you could get a further comparative figures this would show you more, but I would be a bit cautious with that mathematical approach.

The above just a thought, there should be base adjustment and a correction to the ratio of the relationship if indeed there has been some mistake in regard to units used. The problem may be entirely with the software.

Another thought I have is how the Lowrance loom is installed, particularly how it is, if it is , terminated. I don't know much at all in this regard but am aware of number of installation difficulties with these systems.

I have the interface cable plugged into a Yamaha multi hub system setup, resistor terminator plugs are installed on both the NMEA2000 backbone system and the Yamaha multi hub system.

There is one thing that makes me think that its a bug in the HDS programing, all the other readings that I can display EG: oil pressure, MAP pressure, voltage etc all perfectly match on both the Yamaha YDS software on my laptop and the Lowrance HDS display...... its only Engine temp that's not accurate.

I too had a thought that the bug in the HDS programing is a simple mistake when it came to setting up programing the Fahrenheit/ Celsius conversion when lowrance wrote the program. I know that there was a software update for my unit and that has been installed ages ago.

Scotty

[fairdeal]

Scotty - irrespective of your current problem -
you might find it interesting to see what your Lowrance shows when the Yamaha actually goes into "alarm" mode.

(of course, as you have been reading, the exact means of "faking" the ECU could be challenging)

My F225 outputs the alarm "notification" via N2K - and the Garmin will display it.

[fairdeal]

....its only Engine temp that's not accurate.

I too had a thought that the bug in the HDS programing is a simple mistake when it came to setting up programing the Fahrenheit/ Celsius conversion when lowrance wrote the program.

Ahh! - without plowing back through the entire thread - you haven't checked that?

seems somewhere in your Lowrance menu you can select which to display - Fahrenheit / Celsius

if you make the Lowrance display in F - will it still be "wrong" ?

also brings up the interesting question of the transmitted N2K value -

is that as F or C - or both?

[scottcmb1965]

Ahh! - without plowing back through the entire thread - you haven't checked that?

seems somewhere in your Lowrance menu you can select which to display - Fahrenheit / Celsius

if you make the Lowrance display in F - will it still be "wrong" ?

also brings up the interesting question of the transmitted N2K value -

is that as F or C - or both?

Now that's what I call a "BLOODY GOOD" thought....... will give that a try...... but it wont be for a week or two.... heading away for a couple of weeks.

its funny though...... all pressure readings are being interpreted correctly KPA vs PSI, fuel rates etc are all correct.... just this damn temp..lol

[scottcmb1965]

Scotty - irrespective of your current problem -
you might find it interesting to see what your Lowrance shows when the Yamaha actually goes into "alarm" mode.

(of course, as you have been reading, the exact means of "faking" the ECU could be challenging)

My F225 outputs the alarm "notification" via N2K - and the Garmin will display it.

Yeah I have seen that option....... bloody good........ only down fall is its alarming more into the extremes for my liking....... looks like I might have to tap into that thermoswitch that warns the ECU its starting to get a bit warm and set up a red flashing strobe light as it seems that when that thermoswitch goes into action, it doesn't sound the buzzer straight away. And if I am interpreting the SM correctly, that the buzzer only sounds after a set period of time if the Thermoswitch has been continuously on or when the Temp sensor is measuring 130 degreesC........... but there were no clues as to what that time period is and how long for.

Cheers Scotty

[boscoe99]

Scotty, have you heard from Lowrance?
I would not be happy with a 12 degree difference.
You're in NZ, if your service is as bad as to what I've heard in Aus is, and therefore suspect no help from them.
If you're stuck with the situation, I would atleast "redline " it for the critical temp. Not sure how you would indicate on a digital display?
I'd calibrate by taking the sensor out and pop into increasingly heated water and take readings when it is becoming too hot, you may get the Lowrance to agree closer(I don't know). You atleast can note that number the Lowrance displays, as alarm to you.

Zeno, it is going to take oil to heat the sensor up so as to determine how the output in temperature on an MFD correlates to the actual temperature. Reason being that the trip point for an over temperature event is reported to be 266 degrees F/130 degrees C on an F150.

It would be an interesting experiment by an experimenter (fairdeal where art thou?) to see how the actual measured temperatures correlate to displayed temperatures, on both YDIS and an MFD. I suspect the three won't be in agreement. What then? How much tolerance should be acceptable?

In addition to the displayed temperature not correlating with the actual temperature, it might be found that the temperature trip point for the alarm is not per the book either. Either via YDIS or a Lowrance device. What then? How much tolerance should be acceptable? If the alarm trips early is that acceptable whereas if it trips late is that unacceptable?

If the alarm trips at a higher set point than 130 degrees F is that a critical issue or has Yamaha built some conservatism into the system such that the motor might not be damaged even if it is taken to a higher temperature?

There is a reason that Yamaha USA stopped allowing dealers to sell YDIS to end user customers. Only the dealers here can buy it for their own use. Folks get wrapped around axles trying to decipher data that is not readily decipherable.