VF250XA Isolater lead

[wjevans83]

Is there an isolater lead on the new VF250XA to charge the onboard house/ship batteries? If so, where can it be found? Thanks!!

[boscoe99]

Nope. It does not have one.

Even if it did I would use a Yandina combiner instead.

Cheaper, easier installation and just as effective. Maybe moreso.

Combiner 100 Sheet

[zenoahphobic]

Nope. It does not have one.

Even if it did I would use a Yandina combiner instead.

Cheaper, easier installation and just as effective. Maybe moreso.

Combiner 100 Sheet

The only disadvantage of that system is that your precious limited charging current is shared. A better system would be where the starting battery is charged first and then automatically charging your house battery.

[boscoe99]

The only disadvantage of that system is that your precious limited charging current is shared. A better system would be where the starting battery is charged first and then automatically charging your house battery.

That is exactly what the combiner does. When the start battery is recharged, such that the voltage rises to the set point of the combiner, the two batteries are paralleled. If the house battery is low then the majority of whatever current is available will flow to it.

With respect to the precious limited charging current you are absolutely correct. 100 year old motorcycle charging technology is employed by Yamaha. Guess they have not yet heard of the modern belt driven alternator. They are a bit devious as well. They state the maximum output of the electrical system but then hide the fact that of that amount a lesser percentage is actually available because some is needed to operate the motor.

70 amps output in bold print. But not all of that is usable in small print.

[99yam40]

But it is better than only 6 amps like the small motors have

And they do not explain it is only at high RPM
less RPM and you get less amps available to charge battery or any thing else

[fairdeal]

100 year old motorcycle charging technology is employed by Yamaha. Guess they have not yet heard of the modern belt driven alternator.

what would be the benefit ?

I have never given it any thought -

but now that I do, the arrangement on my F225TXRD seems pretty clever and efficient

Besides a belt as an additional point of failure / maintenance item, automobile type alternators have bearings and - last I knew - brushes.

The Yamaha alternator, by contrast, "turned inside out", and with a permanent magnet, adds no moving - or wearing - parts to the engine. The crankshaft/flywheel was going to be there anyway.

What am I missing?

[boscoe99]

what would be the benefit ?

I have never given it any thought -

but now that I do, the arrangement on my F225TXRD seems pretty clever and efficient

Besides a belt as an additional point of failure / maintenance item, automobile type alternators have bearings and - last I knew - brushes.

The Yamaha alternator, by contrast, "turned inside out", and with a permanent magnet, adds no moving - or wearing - parts to the engine. The crankshaft/flywheel was going to be there anyway.

What am I missing?

Less parts. Less weight. More electrical output. Power being created only if and when needed. Cheaper to repair if and when needed.

There might be a reason why 99.9% of all cars and trucks offered today use a belt driven generator, or is it just a fluke?

[fairdeal]

Less parts. Less weight. More electrical output. Power being created only if and when needed. Cheaper to repair if and when needed.

There might be a reason why 99.9% of all cars and trucks offered today use a belt driven generator, or is it just a fluke?

Less weight - maybe.
I have no idea how much lighter an F225 flywheel could be if one engineered the "alternator" aspect out of it.

But less parts? An auto alternator has a ball bearing on each end. And brushes to create the magnetism in the rotor. And then of course the belt and pulleys.

I'm thinking the Yamaha has less parts.

"cheaper to repair" - haha well sure. Tell me a part of an auto that isn't - versus an outboard!

But of course the outboard has the engineering challenge of packing everything into one tight little cowling -compatible bundle.

And the "power created only if" is a can of theoretical worms. There's an inherent loss in turning a belt/pulley even without a "load".
Is the Yamaha flywheel magnet doing the same amount of work - regardless of how much power is being "used" from the stator? My butt tells me, no.

[boscoe99]

When I use the term less parts I am thinking of the alternator as one part. Yes, it is made up of a number of other parts. Yes the belt is one more part.

Now let's look at the Yam system. Lighting coils. Rectifier/regulator. Water cooler for the rectifier/regulator. Magnets glued/bonded/attached to the flywheel. Tubes and hoses for cooling water. Tubes and hoses that are prone to clogging which can harm the rectifier/regulator.

It takes work to turn a flywheel or work to turn an alternator. The Yam system is creating all of the electrical power of which it is capable at any one time. It takes HP to create that electrical power. The power that is not needed now gets to be wasted in the form of heat, necessitating the need for a water cooled heat exchanger. The belt driven alternator only creates whatever power is needed at any given time.

A very small alternator can produce lots of amps at very low speed. 100 amps is nothing at all. Your Yam F225 struggles to produce 35 amps and it takes lots of RPM to make it.

Let's say a lighting coil fails. Now you have got to pull the flywheel. Make some pulser coils and other stuff. In the case of some Yams you need a puller and in others you need to replace all of the attach bolts. Lots of time is needed. Several hours in the best case. In not much more time than it takes to remove the motor cover a belt driven alternator can be removed and replaced.

Once again, why do you think all of the cars and trucks today use alternators and not permanent magnet generators? Just because they want to?

[fairdeal]

I'm not doubting the wonderfulness of an auto style alternator -
I'm old enough to have driven cars with a generator -
so I know exactly!

I "know" that Honda used a belt-driven alternator - but never seen it -

hard to imagine how I would fit one under the cowling of my F225

and I wonder how Honda cooled the diodes?
its the moving air through the engine compartment that does it on a car....

The Yam system is creating all of the electrical power of which it is capable at any one time....The power that is not needed now gets to be wasted in the form of heat, necessitating the need for a water cooled heat exchanger.

Hmmmm. Are you certain about that?
I'm no electrical expert - but I'm uneasy about that one.

[99yam40]

from what I have read, yes any excess voltage is bled off to ground at the RR

[fairdeal]

from what I have read, yes any excess voltage is bled off to ground at the RR

hmmm ok

the magnetic field of the flywheel is "fixed", so the current induced in the windings, increasing with rpms, is always "there"

some of the current flows through the various electrical parts of the operating engine,

some of it goes to recharge the battery, some perhaps for other "house loads"

but at some point, when the batteries "refuse" any further charge,

the "regulator/rectifier" simply converts the excess output into heat

(would that have to be done with "resistors" ?)

well, I suspect it would be "current" but ok, I believe it

[zenoahphobic]

The clear advantage of an add on alternator is that one can determine the speed we need it to turn as a faster ratio of the engine speed.

The disadvantage is the space required out and off centre in space that has premium and somewhat symmetric imperative.

[zenoahphobic]

Powerful rare earth magnets may bring the output substantially higher ; then the current system will become superior again.

[zenoahphobic]

Powerful rare earth magnets may bring the output substantially higher ; then the current system will become superior again.

And if the engineers remain stupid and retain the bleeding off the excess power as wasted HP losing energy then they should speak to me.

I'll design an energy recovery system just like regenerative breaking in electric vehicles that goes to an addition simple coil acting like a brushless motor adding to the rotation of the motor!