15 MSH missing in lower cycilinder

[boscoe99]

Thanks Townsends... still waiting on the head gasket.

Any further confirmation on the 12 ft/lbs torque on the headbolts? And is gasket goo a no-no?
Bry

Torque is stated as lb-ft. Not ft-lb.

Anyway, torque values for the head are stated as being 5.8 lb-ft for the first pass and then 12 lb-ft for the second pass.

Hopefully the head is marked to show in which sequence the bolts are to be torqued. Start with bolt one, then bolt two, etc. on to bolt twelve at 5.8 lb-ft. Then start again at bolt one, going through to bolt twelve, at 12 lb-ft.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Torque is stated as lb-ft. Not ft-lb.

Anyway, torque values for the head are stated as being 5.8 lb-ft for the first pass and then 12 lb-ft for the second pass.

Hopefully the head is marked to show in which sequence the bolts are to be torqued. Start with bolt one, then bolt two, etc. on to bolt twelve at 5.8 lb-ft. Then start again at bolt one, going through to bolt twelve, at 12 lb-ft.

Looks like ft-lb to me, from the Yamaha SHOP manual;

[boscoe99]

Looks like ft-lb to me, from the Yamaha SHOP manual;

Yamaha is wrong. Just like when they call an anti-ventilation plate an anti-cavitation plate. Sad really given how folks look up to Yamaha. Seems they would be extra careful but apparently not.

Yamaha is comprised of people. People make errors. The real problem is when people don't and won't learn from their mistakes and make needed corrections. Ever seen a revised Yamaha SM or Owner's manual that has been updated to fix errors? I haven't either. They don't exist.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Please show where your getting this information from...

I've never heard it referred to as you stated.

Sementic's maybe...

Obviously 11 lbs placed on a wrench, 1' away from the fastener WILL be 11 ft lbs. Look in any shop manual (two posted below), it is stated as ft lbs... (for us American folks not using the metric system)

From some of my other manuals, Kawasaki, Suzuki are ALSO WRONG then??:

[rodbolt17]

when the motor has a fever the alarm will sound and RPM may be reduced,.
directly out of the 07 tech guide.

something did not work well in translating from Japanese to English.

as far as gasket goo, if any use perfect seal or its equivalent or nothing.

[boscoe99]

[QUOTE=TownsendsFJR1300;115429]Please show where your getting this information from...

I've never heard it referred to as you stated.

Yes, they are also wrong. It is a common mistake. People mis-speak and write it on the inner web and the mistake gets repeated. It is done so often that it comes to be seen as being correct. Just like the anti-cavitation plate.

Think about your manuals for a moment. The Kawasaki, the Suzuki one and the Yamaha ones. In the case of the metric value they state it correctly. N-m. Newton being the force and m being the moment arm. The force comes first. The moment arm comes second.

Now look at what happens when they do it in English. They have flipped it such that the moment arm is first and the force comes next. ft-lb.

They are not even consistent are they? If it really was ft-lb then it should be m-N.

I think what confused folks is that if and when work (aka horsepower) is being calculated/stated then ft-lb is the correct unit. When a fastener is being torqued then the value is expressed as lb-ft. In the English system of course.

I am 67 years old now. Even though I have been involved in mechanics all of my life I did not come to the real understanding of torque until late in life. It was difficult to even say lb-ft at first because I had been mis-speaking all of my life. I would rather speak correctly than incorrectly so I took the time and made the effort to correct myself.

Oh, torque wrenches also mis-state the English torque value. They will normally correctly state the metric value. Which to be correct is no longer metric. It is now SI.

[boscoe99]

when the motor has a fever the alarm will sound and RPM may be reduced,.
directly out of the 07 tech guide.

something did not work well in translating from Japanese to English.

as far as gasket goo, if any use perfect seal or its equivalent or nothing.

Motol have fevel. Must give asplin.

[boscoe99]

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Well, that explains it!

[boscoe99]

Years and years ago when negotiating with some Asian types we kept speaking the company Daewoo incorrectly. We said day woo when it is something like die oo.

They got mad and said it is die oo, it is die oo, you must spleak it collectly.

A fool with us jumped up and said "damnit, we will stop saying day woo when you stop saying wockheed. For Lockheed.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

years and years ago when negotiating with some asian types we kept speaking the company daewoo incorrectly. We said day woo when it is something like die oo.

They got mad and said it is die oo, it is die oo, you must spleak it collectly.

A fool with us jumped up and said "damnit, we will stop saying day woo when you stop saying wockheed. For lockheed.

lol!!!!..........

[zenoahphobic]

It's easy to make fun of minority who speak funny and use the wrong words or grammar.
And it is how we see the world. I would be absolutely hopeless living in a foreign country that does not speak English.
That is why I have the deepest respect for those that try.
Therefore I try very hard to interpret (translate to my language in my head) and don't get worried at all, and certainly do not feel I am superior at my language.
But, but, that is not to say we cannot laugh about the differences!
I constantly tell my Chinese friend that I do not want to eat his " fly-ed lice".

Now units of torque like all measures vary depending on which country you are in.
lb-ft is the exactly the same as ft-lb in any language! Like 2x3 is 6, and 3x2 is 6. This convention is generally universal.

[boscoe99]

It's easy to make fun of minority who speak funny and use the wrong words or grammar.
And it is how we see the world. I would be absolutely hopeless living in a foreign country that does not speak English.
That is why I have the deepest respect for those that try.
Therefore I try very hard to interpret (translate to my language in my head) and don't get worried at all, and certainly do not feel I am superior at my language.
But, but, that is not to say we cannot laugh about the differences!
I constantly tell my Chinese friend that I do not want to eat his " fly-ed lice".

Now units of torque like all measures vary depending on which country you are in.
lb-ft is the exactly the same as ft-lb in any language! Like 2x3 is 6, and 3x2 is 6. This convention is generally universal.

From an engineering and physics stand point lb-ft is not the same as ft-lb. Many think so but it is not. It has been written and used for so long and for so often by so many that too many still think of it as being one and the same. I did. You apparently still do.

Not to worry. If you write ft-lb when mentioning torque value to a fastener you will be understood even if not factually correct. If someone tells me he measured current flow through a circuit and the value was 15 volts I will know what he means.

I loves me some shlimp flied lice. Velly velly good.

I worked with EYEtalians for many years. I got a chuckle from their English. They got a chuckle out of my Italian.

[zenoahphobic]

I meant also to say never tighten or torque down bolts in only two steps.
The very need to patten the torque sequence is to avoid distortion and to evenly distribute stress. We also do it because we generally use one tool and one arm!
If we had a head with eight bolts and had a generous toolkit then we would use eight sockets at once and tighten simultaneously to the correct torque. But of course we don't have eight arms like an octopus to do it!

Therefore I tend to torque up at atleast five stages. It is no more work really, and those "mechanics" doing it this way would have noticed that
more often than not , after completing a sequence the first bolts loose their torque, necessitating another sequence of tightening if only to verify that all bolts indeed are at their final even torque.

[zenoahphobic]

Boscoe you may be correct in my misunderstand torque in the way you describe.
I do get very anxious when faced with a stated value and how that relates to the units described on my torque wrenches! I try not to worry, but I probably tend to overtighten ( to be sure the voice in my head says). I also from years of experience have an idea how much a bolt can take before it breaks, and how much a thread can take before it strips.
I keep getting more and more voices in my head telling me to do all sorts of things!