The Future of Yamaha Outboards Technically

[robert graham]

It seems over the last several decades that Yamaha Outboard motors(all outboards really) have become much heavier, much more complex from a preventive maintenance standpoint, higher priced, etc....I understand most of this has been caused by government mandated efficiency and emissions regulations. But I'm just thinking about the future and where are these outboard motors headed? Maybe some new simpler, lighter weight, more efficient outboard motor designs? Do any of you experts with a crystal ball have any ideas what may be hanging on our transoms in another 10 or 20 years?...maybe a Wankel engine, some type of turbine, electric?....Others?
Just thinking about our future here on New Years Eve 2015....

[RayBersch]

First of all, why are we posting on this site late on New Year's Eve? Damn, this getting old sucks.

On topic, I was recently contemplating the same issue. I have not followed the current E-Tech so I was wondering if better 2 stroke technology is the answer. The current iteration of that machine seems to work well. Is there a way to meet tightening emissions standards with an improved 2 stroke? Considering that Yamaha & Mercury have some pretty smart folks in engineering (how else could they make them so complicated) they must believe the future is in 4 strokes and I am betting on the horse race between them to continue. So my money is on lighter, less complex 4 strokes rather than a whole new technology. I think the former Evinrude story would give most companies pause before risking that and the current Evinrude folks are not likely to make giant leaps to something new. But then I bet on Edison over Westinghouse in the AC/DC electric issue awhile back!!

Anyway, that's my nickel.

Healthy New Year to all.

Ray

[Nautical]

My guess probably DFI technology will be on the rise. Better fuel economy and more precise fuel burn.. Engine probably lighter, but may end up a bit more complicated. ECU will be more complicated, but the efficiency gains will be markedly increased.

[boscoe99]

Yamaha engines have gotten heavier over then years with the switch from two stroke to four stroke technology. However, with the use of different materials the weight of four strokes is coming down. There is still plenty of opportunity for further weight reductions with the use of more plastics.

Yes, most four strokes are more complex than most two strokes but not necessarily the Evinrude Etec. That is one complex motor. Particularly the G2 version.

But even with more complexity, 99% of Yamaha modern four strokes are more reliable than 99% of Yamaha modern two strokes.

For simplification I would like to see two major things. A belt driven generator that can be removed and replaced in about five minutes. A bare bones fuel system that consists of one pump, one filter, one pressure regulator and one set of FI rails.

I suspect that we might be seeing DFI four stroke outboard motors in the near future.

[99yam40]

as long as their lighter materials do not end up falling a part or corroding away we will be happy

[TownsendsFJR1300]

When we out yesterday, I saw two Evinrude 200's on a transom that HAD to be literally smaller (definitely not as tall and wide) than my F150. You could have put 140 HP stickers on them.

I agree, the fuel systems are way too complicated now.

Is Yamaha doing this just to make them NOT user friendly?

As noted above, keep it simple, less things to break / maintain, etc... Heck, put a 10 micron filter under the hood, then a two micron filter, then you don't have to screw with injectors getting clogged up, (put one before and after the VST?).

My neighbors Suzuki 140 2 stroke FI'ed VST is out in the open. A couple of screws, the top is off, filter out, super simple...

I guess that'd be way too simple and not feasible for repeat dealership maintenance..

[ausnoelm]

It's pretty simple to make a high HP, light weight engine, it has been done for years, the trade off is user friendly operation, longevity, price, then toss in raw salt water cooling just for kicks, and the design world was just tipped upside down.

[boscoe99]

When we out yesterday, I saw two Evinrude 200's on a transom that HAD to be literally smaller (definitely not as tall and wide) than my F150. You could have put 140 HP stickers on them.

I agree, the fuel systems are way too complicated now.

Is Yamaha doing this just to make them NOT user friendly?

As noted above, keep it simple, less things to break / maintain, etc... Heck, put a 10 micron filter under the hood, then a two micron filter, then you don't have to screw with injectors getting clogged up, (put one before and after the VST?).

My neighbors Suzuki 140 2 stroke FI'ed VST is out in the open. A couple of screws, the top is off, filter out, super simple...

I guess that'd be way too simple and not feasible for repeat dealership maintenance..

Two filters? I would just have one.

What VST? I would not have one.

Yamaha loves to use parts and parts. If three parts are needed for something to work then Yam will use six or more. Helps with spare parts sales.

Look up Rube ****dberg. Rube and Mr. Yamaha shared each others thoughts.

This



or this

[Nautical]

Trouble with that scenario is that Yamaha would have to own the fuel tank.. in someone else's boat. That's where the rub is I think. Where do warranties separate. Boat and engine manufacturers are not always the same.The boat builder would have to use a genuine Yamaha gas tank and pump, and that has to be installed at the factory and the boat will have to be destined for a Yamaha engine only. You would have to make a universal tank and pump all the manufacturers would agree to accept and warranty. Great idea but two different manufacturing entities Boat vs Motor.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Great TWO points ^^^^^.

With my Yamaha motorcycle, that's mostly how it works. The HP pump is IN the fuel tank, one fuel filter on the bottom of the pump. Pressure regulator up near the throttle bodies. No return lines..

Pumps out to the fuel rail, two 2 barrel throttle bodies(same as the F150),
TPS.

Very simple set up, 92 HP out of 600cc (but at about 12K RPM's).

Just moving the VST, simplifying the filters would be a huge improvement...


Some years ago,(and probably still), for the aftermarket auto world, you could convert the carbed system with an electric High Pressure fuel pump (Moroso comes to mind), that does NOT go in the fuel tank for a converted to FI'ed engine. It was plumbed in line from outside the tank. Some had return lines, some didn't. No LP pumps, just one HP pump.

Why not something similar to this, with either just fuel cooling it (as in the car) or worst case scenario, water cool it (like the fuel cooler-or combine both!). No VST, filter it before, can't get much easier than that..

I know Yamaha reads at least one motorcycle forum as new models ARE updated with what the guys are talking about... I wish it was the same here...

[rodbolt17]

the difference between your bike and the F150 outboard is the same as granny chebby,grandpas ferd and an old huppmobile.

chebby,ferd and hupp were all assembled and rolled out the door as a package.

when that F150 left japan in a shipping crate no one at the assyplant has nor had any clue what it was going to be bolted to.

in my time I have taken new motors and mounted them on steel work barges,sail boats with no masts,home made wooden net skiff,bow monted in sea dory's and about everthing in between.


master craft mounts the pump and regulator in the tank on some PCM MPI motors and runs a single line to the motors rail.

problem with that is unless the fuel leak was massive it would continue to run until all the remaining fuel was in the bilge or burning off.
dunno how much pressure those little carter pumps can make,they can flow over 160 LPH, my snap on guage goes to 110 PSI its another 3/8ths of an inch or so until the needle hits a mechanical stop. I have had some of the Volvo pumps peg it on the stop.
I know an SX pump can hit about 90 PSI.

so until the hull is manufactured and assembled by the outboard/sterndrive maker, we most likely will have Vapor Seperators mounted on the engine.

mercloser has a system that the return fuel gos to the water separator, that becomes the VST.

drawback is mercloser reccomds waiting 12 hrs to remove the filter and it can be a sweet son o beech to reprime the pump and bleed the rail.

couple pressuring the water separator with mounting the pump under the port fwd motor mount and it can be a nightmare.

[boscoe99]

Yamaha put an electric oil pump on an oil tank that is in the boat to feed oil to the motor.

Not a far stretch for Yamaha to provide an electric fuel pump that gets mounted to a fuel tank to feed gasoline to the motor.

Better still, work with boat builders to have the boat builders install a tank that has the electric fuel pump located within the tank.

[rodbolt17]

and who made the oil tank?

the difference between that master craft and that outboard is the fuel line on the master craft is secured with clips between the tank and the engine, its a stainless braided hose with a cover. makes it about 3/4 inch thick.

that same hose with 45 PSI for an outboard that has to swing left and right would not last very long and it would look like a garden soaker hose.

[DennisG01]

Very interesting thread. I was just talking to a friend about the newer muscle cars compared to the older ones (a '69 Camaro, for example). I made the comment that although their handling is poor, ride like crap, get lousy MPG and can only go in a straight line, I would still MUCH prefer one of them compared to a newer one. Partly because the newer ones just don't seem to "emotionally" interest me. But also because the older ones were much simpler when it comes to maintenance. I VERY much like the KISS method of doing things. But then... I recently bought an '08 Mercedes GL320 (diesel) and boy-oh-boy does that thing ride nice and have lot's of nifty little gadgets and do-hickey's! I just hope those gadgets and do-hickey's keep working!!!

As far as the fuel pump location goes... I "think" it's a USCG/ABYC requirement that fuel pumps be mounted within a certain distance (12"?) of an engine (if not on it). I'm not sure how MC is getting around that... unless they're older boats and the req'ment is newer?

[throrope]

My 90 TLRD is my first and by the use it gets likely my last outboard.

That said, I suspect all above 25 hp will be direct injected with dive by wire controls. The trend of replacing mechanicals with electronics will continue. I anticipate 50 to 250 hp will all be inline fours. I also expect more turbos and superchargers. Weight to hp will improve from increased power output rather than weight reduction. Hull designs will accomodate more weight on the stern and we'll get used to it. Fuel systems will become more reliable, but more complicated to accomodate declining fuel quality and lower emmisions.

While cars need less routine maintenance, I expect outboard manufacturers will maintain regular service schedules. The motors are under constant load. Commercial guys wear them out and recreational guys neglect them.

I anticipate increases in cost and fewer manufacturers. As we errode our middle class and continue to spend more time with electronics, less recreational boating will occur. While I believe our youth today are the best in history, their interest has shifted away from cars, fishing, hunting, golf, etc. With each year regulations get tougher, increasing petty enforcement deters participation, fees Increase, commercial fishing income declines, less people enter the trade and fewer licences are sold. Reduced demand and increased constraints will drive up costs and likely consolidate manufactuers.