Grounds

[boscoe99]

I still think keith was on some kind of trip when he started this thread, and then stayed on it

He seems to be on one continuous trip IMO. He and the xenoman.

[boscoe99]

Yeah, that's usually the case. Sigh!

You fell into his trap.

[boscoe99]

Imagine cutting into a nice big black wire and dropping it to the deck thinking it was simply a ground wire. What if it were live 120vac or perhaps even 240vac? You might be in for a "shock"! Especially bad in a wet marine environment.

Unfortunately, yellow wire is already used for lots of other purposes such as +12v ignition on a Yamaha. Good idea I guess in the long run. In the short term you might be well advised to actually know what the wire is before touching it, especially if the boat has an AC source. Remember that AC comes from more than just shore power as well. Solar, inverters, generators, etc. can all be sources of AC power. It might not kill you but it will certainly remind you if you're not careful. Then again, it might simply kill you.

I'm waiting for the pizza.....

I believe that a solar panel outputs DC. An AC generator of course will produce AC but a DC generator will produce DC.

What are the wire colours for a three phase generator? Or for three phase wiring in general?

Yes, a mechanic best be knowing what system he is working on. A good idea to test any conductor for power before messing with it.

[Bateau_CX19]

What are the wire colours for a three phase generator? Or for three phase wiring in general?

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Three phase wiring is typically red, black & blue in North America but it would not be uncommon to see other wiring schemes either like three blacks. Now we're talking big ships and likely higher voltages as well. Starting to get beyond my area of expertise

In this case, ground is likely green.

I don't want to fall into yet another trap!

[Bateau_CX19]

Btw, yes solar panel output is DC but often sent to an inverter to produce AC. Also solar panel output will almost certainly be higher and unregulated voltage. For DC use it will be directed to a charge con*****er.

[99yam40]

I know what it is like to be knocked off the top of a 138kv to 15 kv transformer.
it was cleared and tagged, and we were running tests on a rectifier tied to the 15kv side,
I was waiting for them to finish running a test so I could go inside and hook up a load bank,
I noticed a wire hanging off of the 138KV side of the transformer from a test that was run earlier, so while I was waiting I decided to remove that wire.
my mistake, I forgot that the 480 3 phase tied to the rectifier on the low side was heating up & stepped up the voltage on the high side.
Way too much going on during that shutdown, not enough people, and too many hours being put in.

rolled me up in a ball and fell off the side.
luckily I had my harness on and was tied off.
spent the night in the hospital hooked up to all the machines incase my heart stopped .

That was the 1st time I ever heard your heart could stop many hours after a shock like that going arm to arm.
got them to release me the next day after a bunch of phone calls,
went back to the plant to finish things up .

lower voltage 120-240 v will make you grab hold and not turn loose,( bad for you), but high voltage will usually knock you off.

heck I use to stick a screw driver into a spark plug wire & grab a hold of a buddy leaning against the car just to shock them

my nickname was sparky

[Bateau_CX19]

Not to be messed with for sure. There is one simple truth and one simple rule that need to be followed to be safe around electricity.

Truth #1 - ALL wire contains smoke.

Rule #1 - NEVER let the smoke out of the wire.

Everything else is details.

[DennisG01]

Imagine cutting into a nice big black wire and dropping it to the deck thinking it was simply a ground wire. What if it were live 120vac or perhaps even 240vac? You might be in for a "shock"! Especially bad in a wet marine environment.

Unfortunately, yellow wire is already used for lots of other purposes such as +12v ignition on a Yamaha. Good idea I guess in the long run. In the short term you might be well advised to actually know what the wire is before touching it, especially if the boat has an AC source. Remember that AC comes from more than just shore power as well. Solar, inverters, generators, etc. can all be sources of AC power. It might not kill you but it will certainly remind you if you're not careful. Then again, it might simply kill you.

I'm waiting for the pizza.....

Keith specifically metioned "testing" - I wonder how testing can electrocute. Besides, we're talking 12V DC here, not 120V+ AC. As we all know, we can directly touch the terminals on a battery without any hint of shock.

[99yam40]

Keith specifically metioned "testing" - I wonder how testing can electrocute. Besides, we're talking 12V DC here, not 120V+ AC. As we all know, we can directly touch the terminals on a battery without any hint of shock.

and you can touch a 120/240v AC and even higher wire also as long as you are not grounded or touching another phase or neutral.
just have to be very careful.
have you seen those power line helicopter repair guys work?
you could use a meter or other device that is not rated for the voltages you touch with them which could fail and expose you to that voltage/current
high voltage can jump air gaps

dry skin has enough resistance to protect from low voltages, but a cut/break in the skin or even wet skin will let electricity to flow

[Keithbaja]

Yes, I did say testing. Sometime in a boat you are upside down or other strange angles for access for testing. And it's very easy to touch a exposed wire, connector, buss bar. Or slip. Shift happens. As a master Tech of many years I thought I would pass on some helpful info.. never did I guess I would receive so much flak for sharing boat facts. Go figure ?? I'd go into bonding systems and tricks of the trade, that is especially important in salt water boats. Bateau was correct on the yellow grounds and the green for bonding
. But since most of you seem to know it all,, I'll keep my info for my custermers. U wonder why some of us older experienced techs don't want to deal with a boat owner who really dosnt have a clue,, but thinks he does !! Anyone can buy a boat.. that dosnt mean in any way you are a Captain...
OUT

[99yam40]

So, no one here knows what color 12 neg ground color is ??? Are you for real ???

so this is how you try to give/share people your vast knowledge/ info?
what did you expect ?

[Keithbaja]

You have a better way ?? Mr Perfect

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You have a better way ?? Mr Perfect

Yes, not being a smart ass...

Might stick to fixing, NOT teaching, that SKILL SET seems to be lacking..

That or your simply tr00ling again or off meds...

Treat / speak to folks as you'd like to be spoke to.

Speaking down, being nasty, teaches nothing...





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[99yam40]

If you were really asking a question and not just making a dumb off the wall remark,
you could have asked
Does any one here know what color a new Safety Ground for DC systems in a marine environment where there may also be an AC source?

if that is what you were truly looking for an answer to

[DennisG01]

Keith, you seem very angry - or at least your posts come off that way. If you look at your initial post (and subsequent) from a third person point of view, you'll see what I mean. You are also making all kinds of assumptions about those of us that are responding and our knowledge base without knowing a single thing about us.

And, yes, I'm fully aware of the theatrics needed to work on some boats with inboard engines and also the yellow/black ground coloring. But shorting a tool across +/-... the only thing that happens is that it scares the crap out of you and possibly welds a divot into the tool. It's a heck of a scare, though! Now, that said, I'm not making light of working around electricity - it deserves to be respected. But generally speaking, working around 12V is pretty safe. Afterall, it wasn't DC that killed the elephant.

Wet hands is an interesting point. I never thought of that as a variable when responding. I did a little googling (and if those google answers are correct), and it seems a little tingle is the "possible" result if conditions are right. But again - that's just some answers from Googling.