Alarm, Blinking Oil Level Indicators, Oil Overflowing

[badgeris]

Hello to all!

First I would like to thank everyone for this forum. While I am newly registered, I have been utilizing the posts in this forum on other problems in the past.

Today I come before you with an unusual one to me.

I will start with what is going on, and then do a quick history.

Turn on ignition and get the following

constant alarm

All oil indictor lights blinking on digital Yamaha gauges

Engine oil tank overflows

What I have done

consulted the Yamaha maintenance manual

checked oil level in main tank and it is half full

replaced oil gauge sending unit in engine oil tank

tried to start the engine and runs for less than minute then dies

ohm'd original sender and seemed to work but replaced reading that sometimes it still can be problematic

Checked oil filters and oil tank is clean and inline is new

When this all started happening
Two weeks ago I took the boat onto a local lake after maintenance on boat, only thing done on engine was replacement of the water pump.

Traveled about 300 feet and had an alarm. Immediately pulled back to idle and saw water pressure was lower than normal, but still had pressure. The water was streaming out of the hole in the cowl. After about 20 seconds or so, the alarm went away. I then turned around to head back to shore to be safe, and about 100 feet later the alarm went on again, and the engine then died. I pulled the cowling and looked at oil tank and at that time it was between the lines on the tank. I then went to restart and the engine did not start. The engine would crank, but did not start. It did try to catch a couple of times, but did not turn over fully I would say.

I called for a tow back and when I got it on the trailer and back to my shop, I hooked up to water and tried to start. It started for only a few seconds then died. Frustrated I just put the boat away.

I researched and tried ohming out a couple of things and then decided to double check the work on the water pump for the less than normal water pressure. I found the key was able to spin in the new impeller some, which was the reason for the lower than normal water pressure, but the continued alarm, blinking gauges, and the overflowing oil tank still had no answer.

I went ahead and go the new sending unit for the oil tank and installed it, no change. I am thinking possible control unit, but wanted to see if anyone had any other ideas. My boat has been down since the week prior to labor day when I had issued with the boat shop not being able to get on it for preventative maintenance items.

Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[boscoe99]

I am curious as to how the oil tank can be over flowing while the main oil tank is half empty. Please clarify.

Except for the over flowing mail oil tank, what you are describing can be the result of poor electrical connections. On a motor that is 20 years old, if you have a 1995 model year motor, that might just be the problem.

In addition to all three lights illuminating, is the motor going into RPM reduction mode?

Clean and retighten the battery cables at both ends. Do a voltage drop test on the battery cables to ensure they are internally in good working order. Remove any and all ground wires on the block, clean and retighten. Be careful about over tightening them. Disconnect the electrical connections to the CDI and inspect for corrosion. Remove the fuses and check for corrosion. Ensure that the fuses fit snugly into the fuse holders.

Switches are not normally ohm'd out. Switches are usually checked for continuity across the switch contacts. A switch generally has infinite resistance if open and virtually nil resistance when closed.

[99yam40]

Looks like a ***** to me , but I have already started drinking

[badgeris]

Thanks boscoe99 for your reply

It is my understanding that the sender in the oil tank at the engine has three switches, one for low alarm, one calling for more oil from main tank, and the other is off. If a problem is in the switch calling for more oil from main tank, it could be telling the oil pump to turn on and pump more oil, which in turn would overflow the oil tank at the engine. Another area that I have read could cause the problem is the control unit.

The motor only runs for about 20-30 seconds then dies, if it has been sitting. If you try to restart it does not fire, and acts like it is flooded. While I am not all up to par with outboard engines, I am an aircraft tech of 30+ years. It may or may not be flooded, but that is what it sounds like to me to give you the best chance of remote understanding of what it is doing.

We did have battery issues earlier this year, which caused issues with the trim motor. I did not think of the batteries being the issue. I will check the voltage drop as you suggested.

I know she is old, but she was in dry storage for 15 years in West Texas. When it was taken out of the water prior to that, it was preserved by a boat mechanic. While I know it is not as good as it being operated, it has been a great motor the last three years both in the gulf and on inland lakes. It only has 76 hours on it since new.

Thank you for your pointers, I will look into those areas.

[rodbolt17]

we gotta have the correct model number.
was never an lt225xtrv manufactured by Yamaha.
there was an LX225txrv.
but the 2.6l and 3.1l motors had some changes in the oil system over the years.
that's why we need to identify this.
also in order to keep ME from being confused lets use English and call them the remote oil tank and the engine oil tank.

in the V series production the 225 hp was made in both 3.1l and 2.6l.
its why a correct and complete model number helps.

[boscoe99]

A switch can fail. Fail on or fail off. I presumed that you checked the three switches and confirmed they are working correctly depending upon the float height.

One switch closes to ask for oil to be transferred. A different switch asks for oil to stop being transferred. And don't forget there is more to the circuit than just the switch. If the switch closes but the ground reference does not get to the control module then the module does not know to turn off the flow of oil.

I have not done tests and have never read any failure analysis stuff from Yamaha to indicate what happens if two switches are closed at the same time. Yamaha is severely lacking in technical information.

I still don't understand an engine oil tank over flowing yet being half empty. Is there a hole in the tank?

The control unit could be the problem but simpler stuff needs to be ruled out first.

The running issue I would think is a completely separate issue from the oil transfer issue. If you believe that it is flooded have you tried opening the throttle wide open when cranking the motor to see if it clears the flooded condition?

Send me a PM with your email address. I have information that more completely describes the system.

[badgeris]

we gotta have the correct model number.
was never an lt225xtrv manufactured by Yamaha.
there was an LX225txrv.
but the 2.6l and 3.1l motors had some changes in the oil system over the years.

Thank you

The data tag shows 225 TXRT

I am sorry, the other was from the boat mechanic that I really do not trust and no longer have time to wait for him to get to it. It is either I find it and fix it so that I can utilize my boat, or take it to another repair shop out of town since I am in BFE.

[badgeris]

A switch can fail. Fail on or fail off. I presumed that you checked the three switches and confirmed they are working correctly depending upon the float height..

Yes all three switches open and close.

I still don't understand an engine oil tank over flowing yet being half empty. Is there a hole in the tank?

I am sorry, I may have confused the two tanks. The remote tank is half full and the engine tank is the tank that is overflowing.

The running issue I would think is a completely separate issue from the oil transfer issue. If you believe that it is flooded have you tried opening the throttle wide open when cranking the motor to see if it clears the flooded condition?

Yes, I have tried to crank it with the throttle wide open, and it fires but fails to run.

Thank you

[rodbolt17]

225TXRT is a whole different animal.

the 225TXRT is a 25" 3.1L carbed motor.
the automatic oil transfer function only works two ways.
one is initial fill.
requirements are: key on,engine tank SW3(lowest switch) ON and SWB(remote tank switch) ON.


on means closed.

what will happen is 3 indicates flashing and oil transfer pump on for 180 seconds.
if you have 3 indicates flashing SWB is ok,if an alarm is sounding and oil is transferring you have a ground path for SW3 OR the oil control part of the ecu failed(super rare).
all yamha function,except yellow lamp/center bar use a ground path to operate.
could be as simple as the engine oil tank screen is deformed.
NEVER NEVER EVER simply pull out the switch/screen assy.
ALWAYS drain the engine tank FIRST and ALWAYS retrieve and replace that foam seal.

SW! is the upper switch in the engine tank,commands pump off.
SW2 is the middle switch and commands pump on.
SW3 is the lowest and commands pump on again,audible,RPM reduction and sets the far left bar or red lamp.

if the ECU "sees" SWB closed AND SW3 closed it turns on the pump for 180 seconds,sets the audible,blinks all 3 indicates and sets RPM reduction above about 2300 RPM.

if SWB is open or the circuit open it will illuminate the center bar/yellow lamp and NO automatic transfer will occur.

[badgeris]

I checked the engine tank switch and all three opened and closed, drained the tank and removed. It slides freely in the filter screen. Since last post the pump no longer overflows the engine tank, alarm still sounds all the time, and all three oil indicators blink on the digital gauge.

New to the issue (or maybe just noticed) the trim indicator shows all black and top bar blinking. In the paperwork that boscoe99 sent it showed this could cause the problem with the filling of the tank. Grounded the blue wire at the pump and the pump worked. I checked the Trim indicator and the rheostat is changing with the position of the lever.

Next it showed to check the ground of the PBS, which I took as the CDI. I removed and cleaned all the ground terminals on the engine that I found. Still same issue. In the chart it shows to replace the PBS.

In aviation I would look for a short by disconnecting the wire harness and see if any wires had continuity between the wire and the ground. I did find some white substance one the wires by the primary wire harness connection in the engine area. The connection looks like it could be molded and not supposed to be separated. I take it that the white substance is a type of corrosion, so I am concerned about the connector now, but do not find a way to look inside it. In aviation we can split our connectors to check inside the back of it and see the condition of the wires. Is there a way to do this on this wire harness that you know of?

Thank you

[rodbolt17]

give up on the trim indicate.
has NOTHING to do with your issue.
the 95 and up 2.6L and ALL 3.1L motors do NOT use trim to have anything to do with oil transfer.
your ECU is still seeing SW3 closed and SWB closed.

[badgeris]

I finally got her back on the water. She had several issues.

When I checked the oil tank sender, all three switches worked properly, but went ahead and replaced it. Still had same issue. I worked the trouble shooting that I mentioned above and found the CDI to not be working right, so I replaced it. This corrected the majority of my problems. No more alarm issues.

Next issue was the remote oil tank was not being pumped up. Found that I could get the pump to operate by bypassing the trim lever sending unit. Purchased a new sender and installed it. My oil started to pump again.

When I started the engine up, it ran good for a few minutes, then started to squirt some fuel from the diaphragm hole on one of the fuel pumps. I went ahead and replaced all three pumps.

I took her to the lake and let it idle on trailer for 30 minutes with no overheat. Removed from trailer and went 100 yards and alarm came on. Put her back on the trailer. I removed the lower unit and found the clip for the top seal on my water pump had come loose. I purchased a new clip and seal. Replaced both.

Put her back on the water, and she ran like a champ.

Thank you all for your input. While she missed several trips down to the coast, she is ready for the vacation coming up the end of the month. Appreciate your help!