2001 150 ox66 Alarm when key on, limp mode

[ausnoelm]

Yep, I can see where you are coming from, but, a very knowledgeable person has asked for a simple single test to be performed to eliminate a probable cause, but the owner keeps side tracking and asking for other information, one things is certain in trouble shooting, it needs to be methodical and precise, I have yet to see any service manual with the words "sounds like" or "my friends uncle had one that"

[rodbolt17]

anganeers are dense.
they know more than anyone when the ASK a question that if they were real anganeers it should be a MOOT POINT.

yep I have a particular hard on for anganeers.
nothing personal just my late father and a few others.

all I can say, is IF the ECU is going into RPM reduction for ANY reason, you get an audible tone.

that's how the JAP anganeers designed it..



the ECU is stupid.


however I don't design this stuff like anganeers do. I have to fix it year after year
your description is lack of fuel in the intake

[TownsendsFJR1300]

asking someone to test something and not having it done,
and then they keep asking for help should mean not responding back.

But I keep asking to see if they will do it even if I did not ask the 1st time myself. Just prodding them along.


I cannot understand why anyone, especially an self proclaimed educated person, would go this far without testing anything or having a service manual for the motor they were working on so they have access to the info

Agreed 100% however, there is no reason for name calling, etc, I expect that from kids, NOT adults.

I have on another forum, bolded, in several threads, for someone to answer a question (as the poster keeps dancing around) and NOT answering something that may be critical.

No name calling needed, If they refuse to answer, I'll post that until they answer that question, I'm unsubscribed...

I do still watch them chase their tail for S&G's, but won't waste my time..

***Maybe we'll get back to the thread and work on getting this engine running properly, that's why we're all here, especially the regulars..***

[Yamaholic]

People on this site are very amusing. lol.
anyway, back to the fuel pressure problem that some think I have. I will test if this means you guys will help with the trouble shooting. I have asked how to test but no one has chimed in yet on how I do this.
Could someone tell me how I can run this engine perfectly fine with a fuel rail pressure problem? I am definitely missing that. As I have explained, with the CPS unplugged, the engine works fine(the cps has nothing to do with fuel according to the experts here). when I plug it in, I can't even get on plane and the engine rpms get stepped down a few times until I am back to about 2000 rpm.
If it makes anyone else happy, I will also try and find a service manual.
If a tire holds air, in turn you can logically determine that there is no leak.
If an engine runs fine, you can logically determine that it is getting fuel, air and spark in the right amounts. That is my logic. I just want to get the damn engine running with the cps plugged in as it should. When testing the cps, is there supposed to be a voltage between the two wires that go to the sensor or between each wire and ground?? I have the service manual section for the ignition and as I read, it means between the two wires. anyway, maybe someone can clarify this as well.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

People on this site are very amusing. lol.
anyway, back to the fuel pressure problem that some think I have. I will test if this means you guys will help with the trouble shooting. I have asked how to test but no one has chimed in yet on how I do this.
Could someone tell me how I can run this engine perfectly fine with a fuel rail pressure problem? I am definitely missing that. As I have explained, with the CPS unplugged, the engine works fine(the cps has nothing to do with fuel according to the experts here). when I plug it in, I can't even get on plane and the engine rpms get stepped down a few times until I am back to about 2000 rpm.
If it makes anyone else happy, I will also try and find a service manual.
If a tire holds air, in turn you can logically determine that there is no leak.
If an engine runs fine, you can logically determine that it is getting fuel, air and spark. That is my logic. I just want to get the damn engine running with the cps plugged in as it should.

I'm sending you a PM that may help...

[99yam40]

a fuel pressure gauge is what you test fuel pressure with

Rod told you timing and fuel are fixed when you disconnect the CPS, so I would think that is affecting the running. Seems if the ECU does not know what it needs to know it just goes to a known timing and dumps fuel. so You need to make sure the pressure is where it is designed to be so the proper amount flows threw the injectors

Is that motor still not firing all of the plugs at idle like you said before?

[rodbolt17]

its all simply testable.

you sound like the anganeer general dynamics sent to us on the DDG51.

well educated just could not fix a dang thang,

its a pretty simple system.

if the ECU sees an out of range signal it defaults.
some defaults WILL NOT allow WOT.
some will.
ALL will increase idle speed.
have you monkeyed with the throttle shutter screw??

[Yamaholic]

its all simply testable.

you sound like the anganeer general dynamics sent to us on the DDG51.lol, what the hell does this mean? please type in complete sentences.

well educated just could not fix a dang thang,

its a pretty simple system.

if the ECU sees an out of range signal it defaults.It doesn't default when plugged in, just when unplugged which is expected.
some defaults WILL NOT allow WOT.this is not a condition that I have remember. The engine tries to increase rpm but gets reduced down to a set point around 2000rpm when the cps is plugged in, but when unplugged and defaulted to a set condition, the engine works fine, ie, fuel pressure must be good. If fuel pressure is a problem, it is a result of something causing this to happen. it is not the root of the problem. Since the ECU does't control fuel pressure, fuel pressure is not causing the drops in rpm after trying to accelerate. so what are the defaults that this engine would go to?
some will.
ALL will increase idle speed.
have you monkeyed with the throttle shutter screw?? no I haven't.

[boscoe99]

-----------------

[ausnoelm]

that is 100% correct, it is also what Rodbolt said 3 days ago, post number 18....

[ausnoelm]

Yamaholic, while I am sure you have knowledge on all sorts of things, how about instead of refuting a simple test, advised by someone who knows this particular subject very well, just do the test and get it over and done with, there is no use arguing about whether it is the fuel pressure or not, do the test, and prove beyond a doubt that it is or isn't, this could have been done days ago, and the motor fixed, or another fault finding task could have been suggested, it needs to be done in order and methodical, regardless of how silly and impossible it may appear to you.

[Yamaholic]

Yamaholic, while I am sure you have knowledge on all sorts of things, how about instead of refuting a simple test, advised by someone who knows this particular subject very well, just do the test and get it over and done with, there is no use arguing about whether it is the fuel pressure or not, do the test, and prove beyond a doubt that it is or isn't, this could have been done days ago, and the motor fixed, or another fault finding task could have been suggested, it needs to be done in order and methodical, regardless of how silly and impossible it may appear to you.
Ausnoelm,Im not refusing, just trying to get all the info that I can so that when I do get a chance to get back at the engine, I will be able to better evaluate the problem. I am asking questions that would need to be answered if the fuel pressure is not a problem. If the fuel is the issue, there are only a couple things that are the problem. If it isn't the problem, I need to know where to go next. I have very limited time to work on this engine and even less time to actually test it under load. I know that roddy mentioned the 7*BTDC, but this is not a solution to running the engine. The cps is there for a reason and I would like to run the engine and take advantage of its purpose(guessing fuel economy and hp by way of timing changes, or maybe not even that). I consider my troubleshooting to be pretty methodical and will do what I consider makes sense to do.

boscoe99, I have tested the crank shaft sensor. It did look to be a bit far away from the teeth so I did move it closer. I have asked a few questions on this but no one has answered them. I do have that page in the part of the service manual that I have. this looks to be testing between the two green wires? yes? I am only getting voltage between each green and ground. When I tested at the original position, the highest voltage I got was 1.7. when I moved it in close, I did get .7, 1.7, and 3.5 Volts at around the rpms listed. I know this isn't great info without the rpm gauge but close enough.
when you say it defaults to group injection, you mean all cylinders at once?
id appreciate some answers on my questions if you know them. thanks.

[rodbolt17]

depends on what failed as to whether it defaults to group injection or not.

ANY sensor failure, other than O2, will lock base timing at 7*BTDC and idle speed will increase to about 1100 RPM.
depending on the sensor ign timing may or may not advance and top speed may or may not be reached.

this poor stupid motor will attempt to troubleshoot itself and it will attempt to tell the operator its sick.

if you buy the Yamaha service manual, spend an evening reading it you will find all sensors are easily testable and its a stupidly simple system with a low parts failure rate.

most times its fuel related.

the O2 sensor is NOT monitored for any alarms.
if unplugged fuel is fixed rich at idle and lean above 4000 RPM.
DO NOT run above 4000 RPM.
seems stupid but that's how the ECU is mapped.

unlike the automotive world the ECU does NOT monitor the O2 sensor feedback to see if its acutaually changing.
it simply reacts to the feed back its getting.
if you don't have the test adapters then use paper clips and alligator test leads. NEVER EVER cut the wires.
even when the random thought generator says otherwise.

[Yamaholic]

I was referring to the cps. If unplugged, does it default to group injection?

Is voltage measure between the two green wires? or each wire and ground?

I have not looked at the O2 sensor. Think there is a test procedure in manual for that, but I have no reason to do that yet.
Appreciate any answers that can be provided.

[rodbolt17]

its a simple two wire coil.
a small A/C voltage altenator.
any two wire coil should have both legs checked for shorts to ground.
there is a peak voltage test for loaded and unloaded.

if it fails, O2 feed back is not used. there will be NO group injection. ign timing is fixed at 7*btdc,idle speed increases and top speed cannot be reached.

any sensor that assists in ign timing,CPS,TPS battery voltage,yellow wire at the ECU unplugged,ECT will cause base timing to go to 7*BTDC and idle speed to about 1100.
the ECT will set base timing at 7*BTDC idle speed increases yet timing will advance.

NOTICE I keep coming back to ign timing at 7*BTDC and increased idle??????