F150 fails to start/dies intermittantly

[Cork Ribeye]

Hi all, new member here

my 2007 F150 has in the last week failed to start and also died whilst running on 2 occasions causing a complete loss of all function.
When this has occurred, all controls at the console have gone blank, the engine does not turn, and the tilt/trim function (both at the throttle and also on the engine) is also dead.
On each occasion after a short while, it has restarted and run smoothly..
I've checked fuses, batteries, plugs, earth, all wiring looks in order so I'm stumped...

Serviced and running perfectly up to this point.

If anyone has come across this or has any thoughts I'd be very grateful...

Many thanks

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Almost sounds like an ignition switch issue.

My 06 F150, after sitting for 3-4 weeks wouldn't crank (spin) on the initial "key to crank" position.

A spritz of some high end electrical cleaner in the switch fixed it...

I'd be checking the connections at the switch at least..

[99yam40]

with the T&T not working also, it has to be a bad battery connection.
could be the pos (+)or the neg(-)
T&T does not have any connection thru the key switch

[Cork Ribeye]

thank you for the prompt feedback...

has anyone come across White Wire connection issues - this has been mentioned to me??
apparently this "white wire" is linked to the ignition and remote control and can also feed power to the displays....

any thoughts...

[fairdeal]

As 99yam40 points out,
the fact that the cowling trim switch doesn't work
eliminates the keyswitch or anything at the helm -
the problem is at the battery or under the cowling.

You say you've checked "earth" -
but if you haven't already:
remove the main battery ground lead where it bolts to the engine block
and examine the mating surfaces.

[99yam40]

thank you for the prompt feedback...

has anyone come across White Wire connection issues - this has been mentioned to me??
apparently this "white wire" is linked to the ignition and remote control and can also feed power to the displays....

any thoughts...

I have no idea what a white wire connection issue is.

[Cork Ribeye]

"White Wire" electrical issues -power source to the ECM

When you turn the ignition switch and nothing happens. (Battery fully charged)

This is one issue that surfaces on a regular basis and this generally deals with a loss of power source to the "engine control unit" (ECU).
With NO power to the ECM, the engine either stops (if running at the time) or will not start.
This situation usually effects the trim switch on the remote, which also fails to function.


Some background:
Generally, the battery switch (Perko type) has a short pig-tail with a connection to a "white wire" (WW). This WW feeds the power to the ignition and remote control trim switches. In some wiring configurations it can also be the power feed to the dash that powers up the boats other electronics. Note - this WW also has an inline 15A fuse. The WW can be connected directly to the positive battery terminal. Have found it can be tied into the main power lead to the engine, on the starter motor. (not recommended as this configuration can cause electrical spikes to the ECM.)
The WW splits pre-ignition switch and powers the ECM relay coil.
From the ignition switch "ON" position, the gray wire feeds back to the ECM -and is the power source for the ECM.

First let's look at the trim switch.
You hit the remote trim switch to trim the engine up/down and nothing is working. The wiring to the trim switch relay is independent of the ignition wiring but shares the same WW power feed. This allows you to raise and lower the engine without turning on the ignition. When it doesn't work- the cause will usually be related to a power failure with the WW. It can be the switch, but that seems to be rare. The trim switch on side of the engine operates independently from a different power source.

Next: turn the ignition to start/run - no response.
The ignition switch does several things- in the 'ON' position it is the primary power source to the ECM. At this point, for 4 cycle engines, a relay turns on the high pressure fuel pump. You should hear this pump. Obviously when the key is turned to 'START'- the starter relay engages and through the engines main power source, the starter motor starts the engine. One step before the starter kicks in, the 'neutral' switch must be adjusted correctly, so as to prevent the engine from starting if it is in gear. However, any interruption in power to the WW- none of this happens.
.
So what has gone wrong when these two situations happen? Usually - a lack of continuity of power in the WW or a ground wire failure.

Most common Reasons:
1) Spliced connections that have gone bad. Connectors not waterproofed that allow for unseen corrosion.
2) Wiring connectors have separated
3) Ground wire fails.
4) blown fuse

If you have power to one and not the other:
5) Ignition switch that has become defective or broken
6) If you have power to the ECM and starter fails to kick in, one of several more reasons can relate to the neutral switch.

Intermittent power loss can be difficult to find.. In my case, the wire connector to the WW off the battery switch started to fail. I would be running along, hit a wave and the engine would die. Or come up to a dock and put it in idle .. just dies and not start. Again, in my case, the WW is the power source to the dash and other electronics. The depth finder would flicker off, sometimes come back on, but mostly have to restart it. Then one day in my driveway, nothing worked - period. Started pulling wires to track and identify each one and what did they operate. Pulling on a short red wire off the back of the battery switch - the wire connector separated.. This was the power feed to the WW. Internally inside the wire connector -the wire ends were totally corroded at this point. Fixed the problem and was back in business.

- update Nov 2017-
thanks to Catislaguy there is updated info for some smaller HP models
He has a 2009 DF115HP
The primary WW off the battery to the key switch is the same but that is also where it stops.
The ECM in this smaller HP engine is powered of the Hot wire on the starter motor. Connects to the same terminal where the primary battery cable terminates.
The 'on' and 'start' position of the Key Switch - power goes to the Gray wire. The Gray wire then proceeds to power just about everything on the engine, but the ECM.
So if you turn the Key Switch -on- and nothing happens -- still need to start with #1 - fuse box; then #2 the WW; #3 the key switch itself; #4 is the Gray wire hot? if so the engine should run. If not - go back to #1 and start over.
This person, from a separate fuse panel, wired around the WW and everything worked -but why?
Answer was the ECM power source is different.

[fairdeal]

"White Wire" electrical issues -power source to the ECM

There are many "similarities' between Yamaha and Suzuki EFI outboards,
also a number of of distinct differences.

The Suzuki "white wire" is one of the latter.

[Bluefish]

Thanks Ribeye very informative

[99yam40]

Not sure why the OP is talking about Suzuki motors instead of Yamaha since he has a Yamaha

[BaffinBay]

Cork, thank you for your detailed post on the no crank issue. My engine is a 2004 F150TLRC in a 2004 Pathfinder 2200V. My issue was no crank, no tilt/trim, no power to the gauge panel. Key information: I had removed the batteries prior to having this issue.

Optima batteries were well charged, connections clean and tight, fuses OK.

Cure: I had failed to reconnect the main engine block ground cable to the battery bank (-) after removing batteries to troubleshoot/repair a PowerPole HPU (hydraulic power unit) that had intermittent raise/lower issues. I had tucked the engine block ground cable out of the way and failed to reconnect it after installing the PowerPole HPU and batteries. Thank you for the reminder.

FYI the issue with the PowerPole (basic 2004 vintage) was the hydraulic fluid had deteriorated to the point it was thick and gooey and the two mesh filters on the wet end of the HPU were clogged. The fix was to remove the HPU from the battery compartment, remove the reservoir, and thoroughly clean everything with mineral spirits, compressed air, brush and dental pick, renew the o-ring at the reservoir to pump body, top off with clean fluid, and reinstall. It works like a champ now.

I am using Yamaha factory service manual LIT-18616-02-51. It has a good color coded wiring diagram except that it does not include detail of the Yamaha factory start switch, for reasons that I can not fathom. If you have a diagram of this switch I would most appreciate knowing where to find it. I spent quite a bit of time searching for this with no success.

Best regards,
Ray
Austin, TX

[fmt2bx98050]

"White Wire" electrical issues -power source to the ECM

When you turn the ignition switch and nothing happens. (Battery fully charged)

This is one issue that surfaces on a regular basis and this generally deals with a loss of power source to the "engine control unit" (ECU).
With NO power to the ECM, the engine either stops (if running at the time) or will not start.
This situation usually effects the trim switch on the remote, which also fails to function.


Some background:
Generally, the battery switch (Perko type) has a short pig-tail with a connection to a "white wire" (WW). This WW feeds the power to the ignition and remote control trim switches. In some wiring configurations it can also be the power feed to the dash that powers up the boats other electronics. Note - this WW also has an inline 15A fuse. The WW can be connected directly to the positive battery terminal. Have found it can be tied into the main power lead to the engine, on the starter motor. (not recommended as this configuration can cause electrical spikes to the ECM.)
The WW splits pre-ignition switch and powers the ECM relay coil.
From the ignition switch "ON" position, the gray wire feeds back to the ECM -and is the power source for the ECM.

First let's look at the trim switch.
You hit the remote trim switch to trim the engine up/down and nothing is working. The wiring to the trim switch relay is independent of the ignition wiring but shares the same WW power feed. This allows you to raise and lower the engine without turning on the ignition. When it doesn't work- the cause will usually be related to a power failure with the WW. It can be the switch, but that seems to be rare. The trim switch on side of the engine operates independently from a different power source.

Next: turn the ignition to start/run - no response.
The ignition switch does several things- in the 'ON' position it is the primary power source to the ECM. At this point, for 4 cycle engines, a relay turns on the high pressure fuel pump. You should hear this pump. Obviously when the key is turned to 'START'- the starter relay engages and through the engines main power source, the starter motor starts the engine. One step before the starter kicks in, the 'neutral' switch must be adjusted correctly, so as to prevent the engine from starting if it is in gear. However, any interruption in power to the WW- none of this happens.
.
So what has gone wrong when these two situations happen? Usually - a lack of continuity of power in the WW or a ground wire failure.

Most common Reasons:
1) Spliced connections that have gone bad. Connectors not waterproofed that allow for unseen corrosion.
2) Wiring connectors have separated
3) Ground wire fails.
4) blown fuse

If you have power to one and not the other:
5) Ignition switch that has become defective or broken
6) If you have power to the ECM and starter fails to kick in, one of several more reasons can relate to the neutral switch.

Intermittent power loss can be difficult to find.. In my case, the wire connector to the WW off the battery switch started to fail. I would be running along, hit a wave and the engine would die. Or come up to a dock and put it in idle .. just dies and not start. Again, in my case, the WW is the power source to the dash and other electronics. The depth finder would flicker off, sometimes come back on, but mostly have to restart it. Then one day in my driveway, nothing worked - period. Started pulling wires to track and identify each one and what did they operate. Pulling on a short red wire off the back of the battery switch - the wire connector separated.. This was the power feed to the WW. Internally inside the wire connector -the wire ends were totally corroded at this point. Fixed the problem and was back in business.

- update Nov 2017-
thanks to Catislaguy there is updated info for some smaller HP models
He has a 2009 DF115HP
The primary WW off the battery to the key switch is the same but that is also where it stops.
The ECM in this smaller HP engine is powered of the Hot wire on the starter motor. Connects to the same terminal where the primary battery cable terminates.
The 'on' and 'start' position of the Key Switch - power goes to the Gray wire. The Gray wire then proceeds to power just about everything on the engine, but the ECM.
So if you turn the Key Switch -on- and nothing happens -- still need to start with #1 - fuse box; then #2 the WW; #3 the key switch itself; #4 is the Gray wire hot? if so the engine should run. If not - go back to #1 and start over.
This person, from a separate fuse panel, wired around the WW and everything worked -but why?
Answer was the ECM power source is different.

Have you checked your Perko switch?