2004 150 HPDI not firing on 3 cylinders

[mm331456]

Okay, I have a nagging issue with my 2004 150 HPDI. The issue is that the engine is never firing one side of the block (three cylinders) so we thought it had to be the fuel injector driver since I have two (one driver for each side of the block). The dealer is having trouble getting a “known good” driver due to a batch of bad fuel injector drivers from Japan so I took action into my own hands and bought a 'good' used injector driver off of a EBay parts seller who has an impeccable ratting and gaurantees the parts to be good. When we installed this driver on the engine the same symptoms occurred. We’ve even swapped out the so called bad injector driver with other known good injector drivers off of other engines with the same part # (but different year engine) and issue still occurs. One side of the block (3 cylinders) is firing and the other side (3 cylinders) with the new used driver is not. However, when the good driver is swapped with the so called bad driver the issue supposedly follows the driver and the good side will not fire and the bad side would start to fire. At this point the dealer said that we need to find the same exact 2004 150 HP HPDI engine with working fuel injector drivers and swap them out to troubleshoot further. They are convinced that it’s still the fuel injector driver because they are stating that the issue is following the driver. We tried several drivers with the same part # so I am not sure why they would not start working upstream of the driver to troubleshoot further. Anyway, I would appreciate any other possible items to check from the expert community here. What is upstream of the driver? Is it possibly the ECM? Could it be the pulsar coil? Possibly a bad ground? Since the issue supposedly follows the driver I don’t know what else it could be. We checked the following:

•Compression checked out fine
•Tried several known good fuel injector drivers with same part # but different HP/year engines
•Replaced main wiring harness with a new one (not sure which one but $700 part)
•All six fuel injectors were serviced
•Fuel system service
•Checked and cleaned the O2 Sensor
•Changed Plugs
•Bypassed neutral safety switch
•Not the fuel pump because offline fuel checks show fuel feeding the cylinders

[rodbolt17]

is it lack of fuel or lack of spark?
the 04 model used two injector drivers the 03 and earlier used a single driver.
never saw a driver failure on the 04 and up models.
your dealer is feeding you a line.
the injectors are DRIVEN by a pulser coil signal.

methinks your hunting wabbits or chasing ghosts.

all that driver does is provide the operating voltage to drive that injector, its triggered by the pulser coil via the ECU.

[mm331456]

Okay, I received more info from Yamaha. He is getting an ‘active injector code’. He said that he can take my ‘known good’ injector driver and swap it to each side of the engine and it will fire both sides no problem. However they haven’t been able to get a good driver from the factory. Any driver they get in will not work on either side of my engine; apparently there is a batch of bad drivers in the US. The level II Yamaha rep is searching all his locations for a driver for my engine as well, apparently I have a rare 2.6 liter 150 HPDI and most are 3.3 liter.
The way he explained it was the injector driver provides 12 volts to the injectors and the ECU provides the ground. He said since they can successfully fire both cylinder banks with my 'known good' driver there is no reason to move any further until they get another 'known good' injector driver. We are looking, hopefully!

[amahaork]

thats weird: I have 2.6L 200HP carb and you have 2.6L 150hp hpdi - ?

[rodbolt17]

absolutely NOTHING weired.
TWO totally different engines that HAPPEN to be rated at 150 HP. they also produced a 150 OX66 EFI motor in that year.

however this poster is getting fed and eating BS.
aint no sucha thang as a level 2 tech.

aint no sucha thang as a " BAD BATCH O DRIVERS"

why customers eat up BS is beyond me.

the 2.6L HPDI is still imported to the US, the 3.1L quit about 3 years ago.

the 2.6L HPDI has been around and still is since about 1999.

do yourself a favor.
find a real dealer with real techs.

remember, aint no sucha a thang as a level 1,2 or 3 tech.

some of us actually earned or master tech certs, some simply kept retaking the test.

I did mine first try third time it had ever been offered in march of 06.

[greasyshaft]

This is a strange scenario.

Rogue batch of injector drivers throwing active injector codes hahahahaha

Perhaps something causing excessive current draw or not enough current causing one of the injector drivers to drop out?
The injector driver peak output voltage can be tested when the engine is running assuming the dealer has the correct test lead.

Take rodbolts advice and find another dealer

[rodbolt17]

then it goes back to is it spark or fuel.
my stevens timing light is sensitive enough to trigger off the injector driver current.
means I can monitor the injectors.
but it all starts with a pulser coil signal to the ECU.
then the ECU will turn on the appropriate injector and turn off the appropriate transistor to make a cyl spark.
#5 pulser coil determines #5 spark and #1 injector.
same as #6 controls #6 coil and #2 injector.
and so on and so on.
the pulser coil feeds the signal to the ECU,the ECU controls spark and sends this signal to the injector driver.
the driver simply steps up battery voltage to about 90Vdc to operate the injector.
like I said, my timing light is sensitive enough to trigger off the injector pulse on HPDI.

[mm331456]

They cant explain the reason why new drivers are not working and wont move any further in troublesooting until they see first hand that a working driver from the same exact engine does not fix the issue. I actually made up the term level two rep, I work in engineering and those terms are common but whatever Yamaha rep you guys go to for support. So robolt, if I am understanding you correctly we probably should be looking for a bad ground or pulser coil? I appreciate your guys time and expertise.

[rodbolt17]

Yamaha has two basic reps.
one is the RTA call center where they are going to read you the same info you have in your class room training manual.
the other is a district field rep that can actually come by the shop and do things that as a tech at a dealership I cannot.
last time I had to call my rep was on an oil leak on an F250.
however the customer said you had to run it about 8 hours to make it leak.
Yamaha wont pay me 8 hours of run time and the customer didn't wish to either and I wasn't going for free.
after 4 hrs of him running it he authorized me to pull the powerhead and remove the crankcase cover.
sure enough the sealent had failed.
however Yamaha wont pay me to remove stuff and go easter egging.

now on your HPDI.
you stated that YOUR original driver would work on the other bank.
that would pretty much rule out a driver.
leaves 3 things that would cause 1 bank not to work.
lack of fuel pressure in the rail.
lack of spark due to a bad TCI unit in the ECU or lack of a trigger signal for that banks driver.

if you lost a pulser coil you would get a code 13.
however if a pulser is overvoltage you may lose an injector with no code.
low pressure on the fuel rail can trigger an injector code.

that injector pulse is similar to an ign coil primary pulse.
the injector monitors how much voltage it took to open it.
to much and there is an issue and a code.
to little and there is an issue and a code.

you have 6 individual pulser coils mounted on a fixed plate.
odds of 3 failing on the same bank are slim.
these signals are fed to the ECU. the ECU based on TPS and CTS signals figure out when to spark that cylinder AND send a trigger signal to the driver to operate an injector.
#1 pulser is the trigger signal to spark #1 and the trigger signal to inject #3,#2 is #2 ign and #4 injection and so on down the fireing order.

most techs are terrified of electronics cause its difficult to imagine the speed at which it works and a lot of things are going on at once.
kinda like why precision blend is still taught and still whips techs butts.

like I say, all the voltage signals can be monitored and find out whats missing.

[mm331456]

Actually my one good driver will fire both banks when swapping it from one side to the other. That's why it's so puzzling to the dealer I guess.

[99yam40]

so your good driver will work on both sides and your bad one will not work on either side?

[mm331456]

Yes, exactly. The good driver works both sides and the so called bad driver does not work on either side. Even the new drivers are not working on either side. It's a very weird scenario, something is not adding up.

[mm331456]

Okay, The dealer tried a fuel injector driver I borrowed and the engine fired all cylinders. They were puzzled that this driver worked so they tried the drivers that originally didn't work and now all the drivers are working, however a new issue has surfaced. Apparently when they were troubleshooting they discovered that the fuel pump was not getting voltage. They got the fuel pump working by jumping the ground that normally comes from the ECU to the block(From my research I think the ECU intermittently completes the circuit by sending a ground signal or something like that every 5 or so seconds.). So since the wiring harness is new their (the dealer) diagnosis is a bad ECU. I am not completely sold on this since ECUs rarely go bad. My questions to the expert Yamaha/HPDI community is how do we test that the ECU is getting the correct ground. Are there wires/relays I should be testing that go to the ECU? I know that at some point the starter and starter relay was changed by the previous owner and this issue has been happening since I purchased the boat. Is there anything with the starter I should be checking?

[rodbolt17]

ANYTIME the HPDI is running the ECU holds the medium pressure pump blue wire to ground.
anytime.
unlike some low speed operation on some F motors and the OX66.
HPDI needs 50 psi at all times on the medium pressure rail.
HPDI 2.6L also needs about 625 PSI on the high pressure rail.

sounds kinda like a splatter gun approach is being used.

[mm331456]

yeah, I may not have explained all the symptoms correctly regarding the ground. it sounds like you are saying its a constant ground, not intermittent that I described above. I probably was looking at some other posts and got confused. yes, mine is a 2.6L model Z150TXRC.