YDS 1.33 Engine is running or shifter is in F or R

[jackmanjls]

The problem I'm having is the F90TLR runs at fast idle but when brought down to slow idle it stalls.

From the limited YDS data that I got:
Engine Monitor==> TPS voltage=.973V and ISC valve opeing=60%
Data Logger ==> TPS voltage from 1850 (1.23V) to 3300 rpm (1.76V).

I wanted to static test the ISC valve and can't get past the "Engine is running...or in F or R" msg.
I have tried multiple positions of N and can't seem to find the sweet spot.

Is there anything I can do to force into N position as a work around to this msg?

In general, I can't run any of the static or active tests b/c of this issue.

Any ideas?

[fairdeal]

so its sounds like your problem is,
the "shift position switch" is telling the ECM that the engine is in gear
when its really not

[jackmanjls]

That is correct.

So the real question might be what do I need to do the make the ECM think that it's in neutral?

Were is the sensor that the ECM reads to determine if is in N?

Is the "shift position switch" located at the motor head or and the shift control?

[99yam40]

should be at the motor

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Likely part #45: https://www.boats.net/catalog/yamaha...r-0411/control

[pstephens46]

Likely part #45: https://www.boats.net/catalog/yamaha...r-0411/control

May just need to be tightened down.

[rodbolt17]

fix your TPS value at idle and the issue will go away.
the ECU sees the added TPS voltage and assumes it is either in gear or running.
ECU's are not very bright.
they are simple truth tables.

[jackmanjls]

RodBolt17 says..."fix your TPS value at idle and the issue will go away."

I can't get the motor to run at idle.

Using the YDS1.33 I get the following: Engine Monitor==> TPS voltage=.973V

Is there an initial setting (threshold setting) that has to be done?

Any ideas?
================================================== =============
I edited this after the post.
The TPS is a 3-pin device. The center pin is grd, 1 of the pins is tied to 5v and the other is what is variable.
From my investigation the idle voltage s/b between .8-1.2v, according to the SM.

[99yam40]

I think it was around .7, but I am not an expert like Rod

[jackmanjls]

I verified the TPS voltage was at .97v, the SM spec is .8-1.2v. I'm in spec.

The shift position switch (part#45 on the intake 1 diagram for F90TLR). This is a micro switch. I verified with a meter
that when in the neutral position the switch was closed and at all other times was open.

I then connected the YDS1.33, turned the key to the on position and still couldn't get past the msg: "Engine is running...or in F or R".

I'm starting to wonder if this isn't an inherent problem with the YDS.
I did uninstall then reinstalled but still got the same results...."Engine is running...or in F or R".

Any ideas on what else I could do to get past the msg in the YDS?

[99yam40]

did you look to see what the micro switch as reading at that time on the YDS
just because you read it on a meter does not mean it is what the ECU is seeing.
and I do not understand that wide of range for the TPS on a non running motor unless the throttle is not closing as it should

[jackmanjls]

99yam40...the TPS voltage read a solid .97v, the spec from the SM gave a range of .8-1.2v. I would say my reading is solid and in spec.

I will check the input at the ECU.

[rodbolt17]

if the shift position switch has failed you will get a code 28.
or you can simply use YDS to observe the switch going from on to off as you toggle the shift slide.
most position switchs have a resistor in them. that way if the ECU ever see's a dead short or a wide open it will set code 28.
every time for the past 18 years or so I have seen that engine running or in gear message it has been a TPS issue.
if the ECU see's more than about 3* of throttle angle that is what gets displayed.

remember that ECU is a rather dumb black box. it is simply a truth table.

[jackmanjls]

Rodbolt...I included the YDS output that I took after I read your reply.

I did get a code 18 TPS at 1083.8 hrs but I also verified, using the YDS, that the switch went from on to off as I toggled the shift slide.

Some observations:
1. Diagnosis ==> TPS is normal
2. Diagnosis Record ==> TPS code 18 occurred at 1083.8hrs
3. Monitor Item ==> notice the TPS voltage is .934v within the SM spec, that is, .8 - 1.2v
4. Data Logger[Data comparison graph]:TPS voltage(0.5-4.5v)[V] ==> all the values seem to be in range

Of the 4 items above all but #2 is reasonable.

Is this enough evidence to justify replacement of the TPS?
If so, why?


================================================== ================================================== ======================

Save date	December 08 2018
ECM No.:	6D88591A10
Diagnosis
	Code	Item	Result	Condition
	13	Pulser coil	Normal
	15	Water temp sensor	Normal
	17	Knock sensor	Normal
	18	Throttle position sensor	Normal
	19	Battery voltage	Normal
	23	Intake temp sensor	Normal
	28	Shift position switch	Normal
	29	Intake press sensor	Normal
	37	Intake air passage	Normal
	44	Engine stop lanyard switch	Off
	49	Over cooling	Normal
Diagnosis Record
	Total hours of operation	1084
	Code	Item	Occurred
	28	Shift position switch	756.2
	29	Intake press sensor	756.2
	15	Water temp sensor	1039.8
	13	Pulser coil	1080.8
	18	Throttle position sensor	1083.8
Engine Monitor
	Monitor Item	Result	Unit
	Engine speed	0	r/min
	Intake pressure	110.52	kPa
	Intake pressure	27.99	inHg
	Atmospheric pressure	1065.3	hPa
	Atmospheric pressure	31.5	inHg
	Ignition timing	-	deg
	Battery voltage (12-16)	11.8	V
	TPS voltage (0.5-4.5)	0.934	V
	Throttle valve opening (0-90)	5.8	deg
	ISC valve opening	60	%
	Fuel injection duration	0	ms
	Water temperature (below 90)	40.5	°C
	Water temperature (below 194)	90.4	°F
	Intake temperature (below 70)	40.5	°C
	Intake temperature (below 158)	90.4	°F
	Engine stop lanyard switch	OFF
	Shift position switch	ON
	Oil press switch	ON
	Dual engine system switch	OFF
Data Logger[Engine operating hours according to engine speed]
	Engine speed	Time[h]
	- 1000 r/min	283.6
	1000 - 2000 r/min	381.4
	2000 - 3000 r/min	21.1
	3000 - 4000 r/min	146.6
	4000 - 5000 r/min	168.9
	5000 - 6000 r/min	82.8
	6000 - 7000 r/min	0
	Engine hours	1084
Data Logger[Data comparison graph]
	Engine speed[r/min]	Battery voltage (12-16)[V]	TPS voltage (0.5-4.5)[V]	Water temperature (below 90)[°C]	Intake pressure[kPa]	Oil press switch[0:OFF 1:ON]
	4050	12.74	1.8	62.5	68.1	0
	5050	12.3	2.89	58.6	94.3	0
	4000	12.74	1.82	63.3	70.6	0
	3850	12.38	1.78	63.3	70.1	0
	3900	12.67	1.78	64.2	70.1	0
	3950	12.3	1.8	64.2	71.1	0
	3950	12.08	1.8	64.2	70.6	0
	3950	12.6	1.8	63.3	70.1	0
	3500	12.96	1.62	64.2	64.7	0
	1000	12.96	1.04	61.7	37.5	0
	950	12.52	1.04	61.7	35.5	0
	950	13.04	1.04	60.8	35	0
	700	12.82	0.98	60.8	35	0

[rodbolt17]

ok
I will attempt ONE more time.
you either have a sensor 5Vref issue or a sensor ground issue.
remember that black box is dumb as a box O rocks.
for starters lets look at intake pressure vs barometric pressure on a non running engine.
what would you expect?
now lets go back to what I said about throttle angle?
now lets look at that TPS code set .2hr ago.
now that you have a record clear all the codes and see if any come back.
once that code is set it wont update.