F225TXRD port side injectors kicked my butt

[fairdeal]

according to my records, I last swapped out the port side fuel injectors in October 2014.
Also shows at the same time, I serviced the VST.

I have a vague recollection that it was a struggle getting them re-installed -
I remember being worried that I was going to dislodge the rubber seals as I fussed with it -
but it got done.

At some point since then, for some reason I don't recall,
I purchased the port side "intake manifold gasket" -
and its been sitting on the shelf.

Good thing -
because I went to swap in some freshly serviced injectors today -
and it was impossible.

Got the old ones out - not easily -

but there was NFW I could even come close re-installing new ones.

I struggled for about an hour and then said - eff it -
I have a new gasket -
and unbolted the manifold from the head.

I can't even imagine how I managed to do it last time,
without removing the manifold....

[99yam40]

Interesting,
will we hear from others how they go about changing them?

I remember back in the early 70s trying ti change plugs on a Mustang with a 390 in it.
I got the plugs out, but had to get the shop's owners 10 year old son to get them started back in the holes.

I believe on the big block early Mustangs you needed to cut holes in the fender wells in the proper places to change the plugs easily

[zenoahphobic]

Frustrating human thing that gets worse with age: most things are easier to pull apart than to reassemble.

I think there is some biological basis behind this. By necessity, for safety and survival, we need to be careful and accurate in bringing things to ourselves, and have less need to be accurate when discarding or putting things away from ourselves. Examples are getting food to our mouths and discarding our waste; and catching a ball is easier than throwing it to hit a target, pruning a bush etc.
This difference in accuracy in our towards and away arm movements can easily be demonstrated : reach for a bottle of beer some distance away on the table and then put it back exactly where it was. Drink it and you find the disparity widening. You still put great effort in getting it to your mouth (because you want to drink), but when it is empty you don't really care where you put it, so long as it is away from you. Do this with a cigarette!

I think it is our primitive survival mental makeup that seems to tell us it is more important to "receive" than to "give".

Relating this to dismantling and assemble, I think we focus harder in getting a broken thing out and we tire and tend to loose some enthusiasm in putting a new part in; ie we start to loose focus on why we are doing this. The need to be carefull and cleaner taxes us: like pruning we approach with enthusiasm but hesitate at the cleanup. That is why we perhaps should start afresh on some things.

[pstephens46]

At least it was not 95 degrees. Working in the heat turns frustration into rage. Bugs will do it too. I save certain projects for cool weather. I’ll get around to buffing the entire boat in December. Thankfully no engine projects on the horizon. I wish one could get the parts necessary to rebuild Seastar helms. Liability, I guess, forced them to limit availability of necessary parts.

[pstephens46]

Fairdeal Question - I have never removed an injector from my F150. I may be wrong, I assume they simply pull out? They are plastic. Do you even need some sort of pliers?

[fairdeal]

I assume they simply pull out?

yes, just a snug O-ring fit into the fuel rail -
and them the fuel rail "jams" the other end tightly against the intake manifold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ji...ature=youtu.be

accessing the rail on an in-line 4 cyl is easy.
the old 6-throttle-body F225, not so much

[pstephens46]

yes, just a snug O-ring fit into the fuel rail -
and them the fuel rail "jams" the other end tightly against the intake manifold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ji...ature=youtu.be

accessing the rail on an in-line 4 cyl is easy.
the old 6-throttle-body F225, not so much

Damn. Thought I was back in NC. Dale talking bout lectrical stuff and mashing things.

So HPDI injectors are retained the same way? I wonder how they don’t take flight with cylinder pressure bearing on them. Probably the same physics that keep those orings intact in the Space Shuttle solid rocket motors. Morton Thiokol. Anybody remember that name?

[rodbolt17]

HPDI injectors have two mounts. the rail and a U shaped collar.
if it takes more than 2.5 hr to change the injectors and service the VST on the 3.3L F v6 you are milking it.
occasionally on the HPDI you will remove the head to press the injector out.
I have never removed a manifold to replace the injectors on a 3.3L.

[oldmako69]

I just did the injectors on my port engine and it was a pain, but manageable. I ended up removing the intake throttle body and I DON"T recommend that! You'll just increase your work and frustration level. I can't recommend any specifics, its just a pain the in the ass. You need small hands and patience. Unfortunately, I have neither. I also had to replace the fuel cooler as one of the flimsy little nipples broke off. Pot metal and salt water....what a great combo! Thanks YAM!

Here's my takeaway from the whole VST/injector/fuel recirculation circuit. No matter how often you change your filters, no matter how fresh your fuel, e10 will eventually eat away at the inside of the fuel hose which supplies the injectors. The rubber will slough off and be delivered back to the VST. Most of it will eventually clog your VST intake screen but some really small bits will remain in the circuit will clog one or more of your injectors. At least that's what happened to me.

My engine was running great for months, then one day just shat. It idled rough and would not make rated RPM. I cleaned the screen which was clogged with rubber.

See pic...http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/f...9720-well-crap

I reassembled the whole mess and still had a steady miss. I then had to go back in and pull all the crap off the port side again and change the injectors on that side and the starboard as well. The engine then ran flawlessly.

But, while its running flawlessly I know that until I change out that fuel line its still in the process of clogging that VST screen all over again. The next time I go in there, I'm changing the fuel line.

[fairdeal]

Perhaps Rodbolt will share some specific guidance on how to r/r those port side injectors...

[99yam40]

I reassembled the whole mess and still had a steady miss. I then had to go back in and pull all the crap off the port side again and change the injectors on that side and the starboard as well. The engine then ran flawlessly.

But, while its running flawlessly I know that until I change out that fuel line its still in the process of clogging that VST screen all over again. The next time I go in there, I'm changing the fuel line.

from what I have read it is not just the fuel lines falling apart, brush dust from the fuel pumps will plug up the filter/screens as the fuel recirculates into the VST and flow to the injectors

[oldmako69]

Yes. I agree. Someone makes a rust proof ceramic high psi pump that is supposed to help with that. In fact, that may be what clogged my injector. The rubber bits in the intake screen were far too large to potentially affect an injector, but rust bits are another matter.

One thing that I recall is that I positioned each injector in the fuel manifold and then lined things up as best I could, then threaded in the bolts which hold the injector manifold in place. I slowly and deliberately moved from one bolt to the next and used that force to symmetrically seat the injectors into the throttle body and the manifold.

The last time was the third time for me and for whatever reason, it was the most frustrating and time consuming. I probably spent close to 3 hours, but I also replaced the fuel cooler and had to reassemble the throttle body intake. Do not be fooled, there are three on each side. One per cylinder and they mesh together just so prior in installation. There are small springs and washers that will make you cuss should they fly out.

[99yam40]

I was not talking about rust,
it was the bushes in the pimp motors that I was talking about and the stuff coming off of them as it runs

[oldmako69]

Sorry, I assumed rust because of a post online where a guy took his old High PSI pump and cut in half with a hacksaw. He said the internals were rusting, presumably from the water picked up by the e10. This rust was then being shat into the fuel flow to the injectors.