2004 HPDI not getting Oil Transfer

[jkk520vx]

I have a 2004 HPDI (2.6L). I am not getting oil flow from the remote tank to the main tank. Here is what i have checked so far:
1. the remote pump works if I apply 12 volts.
2. the remote pump works if i use the emergency fill switch.
3. the main tank float test good (at all 3 levels) and the remote tank float checks OK (one level).
4. I have continuity on all 4 wires from the remote tank to the first plug inside the cowling (Blue; Black; Black/Red; and Brown).
5. I have continuity from the first plug to the plug going into the CDI unit (on the same color wires except Brown changes to Yellow).
6. I have continuity from the CDI plug to the plug at the main tank harness.
7. When I jump from L/G to B in the harness at the float connection the pump should come on but it DOES NOT.
8. I do NOT have a tach with lights (only an alarm horn).
So is the only thing left the CDI unit (I hope not)???

[boscoe99]

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[rodbolt17]

by the tests you have done I would suspect either the remote switch or the remote switch wiring or the engine switch.
when you jump the blue/green to black the engine MUST be running or nothing happens.

an easier test is to drain the engine tank, make sure the remote is at least 1/2 full and turn the key on.
you should see your oil lamps flashing and an alarm and the pump should run 180 seconds.

its also why that Yamaha should have been rigged correctly.

[jkk520vx]

I'll try to answer both Boscoe99 and Rodbolt17.
Boscoe99 - Yes oil physically flows from the remote tank to the main tank as long as i hold the emergency switch. As for the blue wire continuity from the CDI to the harness pin at the switch, i'll have to recheck but i'm almost positive that i do because the emergency switch works and isn't that what closes to run the remote pump?
Rodbolt17 - I agree that the wiring isn't proper but it has run this way since 2004 and started having problems a few years ago (my son's boat so not sure of exactly when it started) but i remember that he initially thought it was an overheating issue but back then I narrowed it to an oil issue.
A few weeks ago i started in earnest trying to figure this out and search several of the posts and got all of the information and a repair manual with some detail to test all of the various possibilities.
One of the tings i don't recall reading is your comment that the engine has to be RUNNING and not just have the key "ON". However this past Saturday i hooked up a 12 V light in parallel with the pump wires (brown and blue) at the remote tank so that as we ran the engine we could see if the pump started or not. I intentionally drained the main tank down to below the trip point for the blue/green and black wire to energize the pump but ABOVE the low limit trip point. The pump never came on and eventually the low level alarm tripped, the engine slowed to 'safe" mode, we shut it down and the level in the main tank was exactly at the low level point. I used the emergency switch to fill the tank above the trip point again and the same thing happened during three or 4 more test runs.
As for the switches you refer to - how do you recommend that i test those as it appears that that part of the system is working as the articles describe it should.
I'll have to try and drain the tank all the way down and then refill as you describe.
I am having a hard time believing that the CDI (ECM) is the issue as everything else is working fine and the engine is running great (when the oil level is up). I have kept the remote tank near full.
Thanks

[boscoe99]

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[rodbolt17]

have you checked the oil FLOW?
sometimes a clogged filter on the remote tank will allow the engine to consume oil faster than it can transfer.

that engine, like ALL 3.1L, all 96 and up V6 motors and most v4 2004 and up require the engine to be running for auto oil transfer.
some V6 and V4 that have had the oil control module replaced also require the engine to be running.

that simple drain the engine tank and turn on the key test will show a restricted filter.
in the 180 second pump run it should refill the oil tank and turn of BEFORE the timer times out.

also if your oil lamps fail to blink it points towards an SWB issue.

see there is a method to the madness.

[boscoe99]

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[jkk520vx]

It looks like i need to do a few more checks and will get back to you both.
However, I found a few more things that might be of relevance (Rodbolt, you're not going to like this but it's what i'm dealing with). The boat has Mercury controls, Merc key switch, and i assume a Merc buzzer and wiring to the engine with an adapter cable connecting the engine wiring to the Merc cable from the shifter control box. The remote tank (pump, float switch and wiring) is Yamaha and always has been even when the Merc was on it.
I noticed last night that (please read this comment carefully) the black wire (on the engine-side of the first connector) is taped off and goes no where. My son tells me that when they installed the engine with the Merc controls that they had a constant buzzer alarm and they cut and taped this wire to "fix" it. However, there is (and my son says always has been) a "residual" buzz at the buzzer (very faint but noticeable) as though it is still getting a very low voltage signal (or a slight ground) to it.
If i connect this black wire, the buzzer sounds loudly and continuously. If i disconnect it the buzzer stops but the "residual" buzz continues. However, if i disconnect the connector at the main tank float switch, the loud buzzer sounds for about 30 seconds and then stops and (interestingly) SO DOES THE RESIDUAL BUZZ AT THE BUZZER.
If i reconnect the main tank float switch connection AND the black wire at the first connector inside the cowling, the buzzer sounds again BUT if I disconnect the remote tank wiring at the remote tank, the buzzer stops (but the residual buzz remains). Like i said you are probably going to need to read this carefully a few times to follow what i'm saying.
Any idea what kind of cost would be involved if i replace the controls, wiring and tach with the proper Yamaha rigging (preferably used)??
Thanks a bunch for your patience and continued guidance.
Joe

[jkk520vx]

It looks like i need to do a few more checks and will get back to you both.
However, I found a few more things that might be of relevance (Rodbolt, you're not going to like this but it's what i'm dealing with). The boat has Mercury controls, Merc key switch, and i assume a Merc buzzer and wiring to the engine with an adapter cable connecting the engine wiring to the Merc cable from the shifter control box. The remote tank (pump, float switch and wiring) is Yamaha and always has been even when the Merc was on it.
I noticed last night that (please read this comment carefully) the black wire (on the engine-side of the first connector) is taped off and goes no where. My son tells me that when they installed the engine with the Merc controls that they had a constant buzzer alarm and they cut and taped this wire to "fix" it. However, there is (and my son says always has been) a "residual" buzz at the buzzer (very faint but noticeable) as though it is still getting a very low voltage signal (or a slight ground) to it.
If i connect this black wire, the buzzer sounds loudly and continuously. If i disconnect it the buzzer stops but the "residual" buzz continues. However, if i disconnect the connector at the main tank float switch, the loud buzzer sounds for about 30 seconds and then stops and (interestingly) SO DOES THE RESIDUAL BUZZ AT THE BUZZER.
If i reconnect the main tank float switch connection AND the black wire at the first connector inside the cowling, the buzzer sounds again BUT if I disconnect the remote tank wiring at the remote tank, the buzzer stops (but the residual buzz remains). Like i said you are probably going to need to read this carefully a few times to follow what i'm saying.
Any idea what kind of cost would be involved if i replace the controls, wiring and tach with the proper Yamaha rigging (preferably used)??
Thanks a bunch for your patience and continued guidance.
Joe

[jkk520vx]

Bascoe99, I checked and there is continuity between the blue wire at the emergency switch and the blue wire pin in both the 26 pin connector and the 34 pin connector at the ECM. There is also continuity from the blue wire to the black wire in both of these plugs as well as continuity with a few other pins in both of those plugs.
Rodbolt17, I drained the main tank all the way down, turned the key to "on" the buzzer sounded continuously but the pump NEVER RAN. Finally shut it off after a few minutes.
Thanks again,
Joe

[jkk520vx]

Boscoe99 - I'm not sure what happened but all of your previous responses have disappeared!!??
I want to tell you the results of the wire testing at the CDI 24 pin connector:
1. The blue wire with white tracer is NOT providing a ground with the float in ANY POSITION (open or closed). But when i check from the blue/white wire to black in the float connector it trips on and off as specified.
2. The blue wire/green tracer IS providing a ground at the CDI 24 pin connector with float in ANY position (not just SW2 closed). If i test the blue/green to black in the float connector it trips on and off as specified.
3.The blue/red tracer (there are two) both are opened when the SW3 is open and provides a ground when SW3 is closed. SW3 opens and closes at specified when jumping between blue/red and black in the float switch connector.
4. For the black/red tracer wire, this one is a little tricky to explain. Remember the black wire that I mentioned in the post (a few back) that was intentionally broken to prevent the buzzer from sounding? If it is left broken then there is NO ground at the CDI 24 pin connector with switch SWB closed. If I connect the black wire then there IS a ground with the black/red tracer wire.
5. With the key on (there is no buzzer since the ECM/CDI is disconnected) and i manually ground the blue wire from the 24 pin connector to ground the pump runs and oil starts to flow into the main tank from the remote tank.
I admit that i'm starting to get a little confused. What does this tell you??
Thanks again,
Joe

[rodbolt17]

tells me it was the cheapest fubar rigging job in most of history.

however it kinda worked for a time.
now may be a good time to rig it correctly.

if it was in my driveway yes it would be simple.
trons is trons doesn't matter what color the insulatation is.

on the engine oil tank switch, blue white to ground is pump off.
blue/green to ground pump on.
red/black to ground RPM reduction, audible, visual and a second pump on command.

did you test the key on engine off oil transfer as I asked ?

don't go splatter gunning nor ghost hunting on me.

its an INCREDIBLY simple system.
4 switchs, on or off.
just cause the SWITCH tests good doesn't mean the associated wireing relayed the information to the ECU.
ECU failures are so rare I have seen about 14 yrs.

this is why I WONT jury rig jack sheet.
do it right or take it down the road to ace man mobile ripoff.
and here on the outer banks we have a boat load of "techs" that will take on anything, anywhere take your money and disappear.

been dealing with a boat for OBX jetpack that got SMOKED on a moter install by a jackleg backyardigan with a tool box.

I would not be caught dead on the water in that boat.

[jkk520vx]

Rodbolt, Sorry about splatter gunning/ghost hunting but i was also trying to get Boscoe some answers to his comments as well.
To answer your question - YES I emptied the main tank and had the remote tank nearly full. Turned on the key and got the audible alarm continuously but no pump action at all. So after about 2 minutes of listening to the alarm i shut it off.
I would like to re-rig the boat with the proper controls and wire harnesses and a tach with the built in indicator lights. Not sure what the proper part numbers are or what all needs to be replaced to have it rigged properly as i haven't really studied that yet.

[rodbolt17]

I would chase the wireing on the black and the black red from the remote oil tank.
I cant help you with part numbers.

[jkk520vx]

Rodbolt,
I mentioned a few posts ago that my son told me that they intentionally cut the black wire on the engine side of the connector just inside the cowling (the wires coming from the remote tank) because if it is connected the alarm sounds continuously.
I connected this wire with the main tank empty and the remote tank nearly full to re-try your test and with the buzzer alarm sounding the remote tank pump will run. I now need to let it run for the 180 seconds to see if it will shut off and then i need to find out how to get this alarm to shut off when the black wire is connected.
Any ideas on that and the residual buzz that i mentioned??
Thanks for your continued patience and help.
Joe