PTT...ATF v. Hydraulic Fluid

[Jason2tpa]

Disregard the title of this thread....

'98 S115TLRW

Been experiencing ugly sounds coming from PTT....squeaking, squealing, crunching....all sounds not heard when I first acquired this engine 2 years ago. Referring to my service manual, air bleeding is recommended when experiencing "rough operation". Opened the reservior and the color of PTT fluid you see pictured below is what came out.

Not sure how clear the photo will be on your end...the color of the fluid is lavender...not purple, not white, not clear, but somewhere in between these colors on the color spectrum. The 2nd photo is the fluid color against the white backdrop of my transom.

So at first I thought/hoped this issue was air-related. But by looking at the fluid it's clearly not. I'm not 100% of all the varying colors of ATF fluid....but I'm pretty certain lavender is not one of these. That milky color can only mean one thing, no?...Leaky seal.

If so, my next question is how do I go about identifying which seal or seals are bad. Also something to consider...this engine is 20 years old. I'm not the original owner. Despite this engine having been meticulously maintained throughout the years during and prior to my ownership, let's assume for the sake of simplicity that this PTT is original. No variation of paint color between PTT unit, lower unit, lower/upper cowling.

How old is the fluid? No idea. I've never changed it because I've had no reason to change. So could this color of fluid be attributed to the age of the PTT system and/or the age of the fluid and not a busted seal, thus the unit only needs to be air bled? I don't know. I suppose I could remove the reservoir, drain the fluid, replace reservoir, then fill with new fluid. Check fluid color after a few excursions. If milky, busted seal. If no issues with PTT and fluid is same color as when I filled....problem solved.

Your thoughts?

[Jason2tpa]

[99yam40]

one is red in color and the other is not

[fairdeal]

IMO the "shade" of the liquid is unimportant -

what matters is that it has been thoroughly contaminated with water
and "air" /"bleeding" is wishful thinking / red herring.

again IMO - calls for full disassembly, cleaning, inspection.
reassemble with all new seals
and you won't have to wonder exactly which one leaked

[Jason2tpa]

Appreciate the input fairdeal

[rodbolt17]

yep
it is broke.
simply fix it.

[Jason2tpa]

yep
it is broke.
simply fix it.

What’s an approx labor time for a mechanic like yourself to do the job?

[pstephens46]

Getting the bolts/caps loose will be the major obstacle. Particularly the "long bolt" attaching the pump to housing. Those o-rings need to be replaced as the other seals. There are about 5-6 of them. Mechanic had to torch the paint off my unit to get it to release. After I had bent the bolt trying to unscrew it.

[Jason2tpa]

I have no doubts this is a job I’m capable of...despite it would be my first. Service manual instructions for disassembly/assembly are pretty straight forward. My concerns are related to labor time...as my free time is not what it used to be. I prefer not to have my boat inoperable for an extended period of time if i were to do the repairs myself. If I dedicated 2-3hrs/day, from start to finish, about how long would it take to complete?

[pstephens46]

I have no doubts this is a job I’m capable of...despite it would be my first. Service manual instructions for disassembly/assembly are pretty straight forward. My concerns are related to labor time...as my free time is not what it used to be. I prefer not to have my boat inoperable for an extended period of time if i were to do the repairs myself. If I dedicated 2-3hrs/day, from start to finish, about how long would it take to complete?

I have never completely disassembled my unit so I do not know. You will need good spanner wrenches to loosen the caps. I believe tilt cylinder is larger than trim so two needed. Fairdeal has dug into his pretty deep. Maybe he has a better idea.

[boscoe99]

Too bad that there is not a reputable dedicated shop to which power trim and tilt units and lower units could be shipped to for a repair and/or overhaul. IMO it takes someone that wants to do these kinds of repairs and who is experienced in them, with the necessary equipment, to perform a consistently satisfactory repair.

[99yam40]

make sure you keep everything very clean when you put it all back together.
and watch what kind of rags you use.
back when I was doing Automatic transmissions(in school back in early 70s), you would be suprized at how much lent would be caught by the filter after an overhaul.
best to use lint free rags

[panasonic]

Jason, I am sure you are capable of doing the job...just a few tips. I have never had an opportunity to pick apart an OB trim tilt unit. But I have had more then one hydraulic flight control actuator apart for repair.
As Yam said being clean and using lint free rags is a must. I would have a work bench with clean piece of cardboard or brown paper on it. You need a spot which you can leave things apart and won't be disturbed while waiting for parts..ect

Take things apart slowly and lay them out neatly as they are disassembled. Take lots of pictures and or make drawings as the memory can be short....especially if you have to leave it.

A lot of bits and pieces in there so take your time.

Are there seal kits available or do you have to order everything separate?

Good luck.

[Jason2tpa]

I'm just spitballing here, reaching for the potential of water getting into the PTT hydro system by way of a bad plug reservoir o-ring and not because of a bad seal(s). I'm referring to part #24 below. I can state with absolute certainty that prior to looking at the parts blow out for my PTT unit I had no idea there was an o-ring inside the plug reservoir cap. I've removed/installed this cap at least twice while owning this motor to check fluid level....not once did I check when installing the plug cap that this o-ring was not only in good shape, but also if there even was an o-ring in the cap.

Just doing some due diligence before tearing down the unit, assuming water entered the system via a busted seal and not because of a bad/missing plug reservoir o-ring. What do y'all think...I'm reaching, or logically possible water entered into system by passing thru plug and not by passing thru seal?

[Jason2tpa]

Are there seal kits available or do you have to order everything separate?

Looks like separate pano....they do offer trim piston sub assembly which includes seals, but this kit also includes the pistons. And I wouldn't order the kit unless I knew the pistons were bad...which they don't, at least from an aesthetic view.