Who Understands Indy Racing?

[boscoe99]

I have always been taught that the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line.

Watching the Indy 500 now. Coming out of the shorter legs they are at the top of the track but then dip down to the bottom of the track, only to go back to the top before entering the next turn. A long curve if you will. Seems like the long around.

Why do they do this? Must be some advantage that I don't know.

[99yam40]

probably higher banked up there, not sure

[pstephens46]

I believe you are describing “cutting the middle” of turn. Strange term, but overall, results in less friction, thus a faster line.

[pstephens46]

I could make a couple videos to demonstrate but it is raining. Probably will rain for next two days.

[panasonic]

All about cornering speed on those big tracks and the speeds they are traveling at. By taking the long way around they don't scrub off so much speed compared to taking the tighter inside of the corner, even though it is the shorter way around.

The speed they save on the corner translates into more speed on the straights.Basically conservation of energy at play.

That's the way I understand it anyway.

[zenoahphobic]

It's racing. The aim is to end in front. And you can only do that if you finish.
I guess it is much like motorcycling where they call it keeping a line, riding as smooth as possible.
When I ride (do it often but approaching winter now) I aim to keep all corners as wide or as large a radius as possible. That is I move to the outside as I approach the turn and cut down to the edge of the apex and move out again out of the turn.
This is done instinctively to keep things smooth: less braking, less banking, less loss of control powering out of the turn; the last the most influential in gaining or keeping the lead.
Now I actually think when I ride I am also taking the shortest route, but in racing spreading or using the most of the track is a strategy in stopping opponents overtaking, giving them only the option to overtake often at the highest risk of them loosing control. The corners are where you cannot let the opponent come on the inside under you.
I guess most other replies are saying the same.

[oldmako69]

It's about speed more than distance. Speed to cover the distance the quickest. Shave one-third of a nano-cron off one-half of 250 corners and pretty soon you're a lap up and have a shot at sucking cold milk. I love it.

I look at it this way IF, through some majestic spasm of the God's I was allowed to drive one of those cars on that track with zero traffic on a nice VFR day, I am pretty sure that I could turn 130-150 mph laps within the first 5. After 15 laps, I'll bet I could MAYBE see 160-165. And if I practiced for weeks, maybe 170-175. THEY qualify at almost 230. Those cars are pulling serious G's in every corner for hours. If they get outside of the line buy more than a few inches, they hit the wall at over 200mph.

You're talking about a half a razor's edge that is keeping that car sticking to that track. I think it kicks ass. I read once that those cars create enough downforce that they could stick to the ceiling, like a house fly. The history and spectacle alone make it fascinating to me, let alone all the engineering.

I missed the race but recorded it. Can't wait to watch.

[pstephens46]

It's about speed more than distance. Speed to cover the distance the quickest. Shave one-third of a nano-cron off one-half of 250 corners and pretty soon you're a lap up and have a shot at sucking cold milk. I love it.

I look at it this way IF, through some majestic spasm of the God's I was allowed to drive one of those cars on that track with zero traffic on a nice VFR day, I am pretty sure that I could turn 130-150 mph laps within the first 5. After 15 laps, I'll bet I could MAYBE see 160-165. THEY qualify at almost 230.

You're talking about a half a razor's edge that is keeping that car sticking to that track. I think it kicks ass. The history and spectacle alone make it fascinating to me.

I missed the race but recorded it. Can't wait to watch.

Oldmako is slipping. A few paddock ladies. I think there are some piercings.

[boscoe99]

Paddock ladies deserve to get pierced.

[panasonic]

It's about speed more than distance. Speed to cover the distance the quickest. Shave one-third of a nano-cron off one-half of 250 corners and pretty soon you're a lap up and have a shot at sucking cold milk. I love it.

I look at it this way IF, through some majestic spasm of the God's I was allowed to drive one of those cars on that track with zero traffic on a nice VFR day, I am pretty sure that I could turn 130-150 mph laps within the first 5. After 15 laps, I'll bet I could MAYBE see 160-165. And if I practiced for weeks, maybe 170-175. THEY qualify at almost 230. Those cars are pulling serious G's in every corner for hours. If they get outside of the line buy more than a few inches, they hit the wall at over 200mph.

You're talking about a half a razor's edge that is keeping that car sticking to that track. I think it kicks ass. I read once that those cars create enough downforce that they could stick to the ceiling, like a house fly. The history and spectacle alone make it fascinating to me, let alone all the engineering.

I missed the race but recorded it. Can't wait to watch.

Hugh amounts of down force...

https://www.indycar.com/News/2016/06...-downforce-pt1

[zenoahphobic]

Hugh amounts of down force...

https://www.indycar.com/News/2016/06...-downforce-pt1

Seems ridiculous that the downforce quoted in the article does not act totally against keeping these cars together. Let alone the frictional load.
Not knowing the maths the drag must be huge, the driving wheels must be exerting tremendous force that they should be ripping themselves off. So how does the aerofoil not crush and get ripped off?
What about the added effective weight on the structure and suspension, this is many times the weight of the car itself, and what does that added strength do to the weight required.
Sounds a little stupid to me, downforce must have a limit.

[Jason2tpa]

probably higher banked up there, not sure

Indeed it is. The Indy track boscoe was watching cars run on has very little degree of bank at 9°, compared to the Charlotte track nascar was racing on today at 24° and even less than the highest bank circuit track of Talladega at 35°. But when applying simple physics even at 9° of bank will increase momentum without using power to do so. And with all other variables being equal, tires and fuel management win races.

[zenoahphobic]

Indeed it is. The Indy track boscoe was watching cars run on has very little degree of bank at 9°, compared to the Charlotte track nascar was racing on today at 24° and even less than the highest bank circuit track of Talladega at 35°. But when applying simple physics even at 9° of bank will increase momentum without using power to do so. And with all other variables being equal, tires and fuel management win races.

The angle of the bank aids considerably. If you watch the bicycle racing in the Olympics (we had commonwealth ****s recently) on the velodrome from a standstill a rider can hit full speed in no time dropping down to the inner track below, than they can do when starting from that inner track. Of course they would have used up some of their limited energy getting up to there, believing it is worth it using that strategy.

[oldmako69]

Seems ridiculous that the downforce quoted in the article does not act totally against keeping these cars together. ............ So how does the aerofoil not crush and get ripped off?
What about the added effective weight on the structure and suspension, this is many times the weight of the car itself, and what does that added strength do to the weight required.
Sounds a little stupid to me, downforce must have a limit.

The whole car is the airfoil, and the whole car is designed to withstand the pressures. The shape of the underside of the car is just as important as the top. A few years ago Mario Andretti was testing a car when he hit something on the track which caused his front end to lift just enough to "stall" the downforce. His car turned into a flying saucer in an instant.

There were two noteworthy wrecks yesterday early in the race, both in turn two. Both cars lost adhesion due to understeer and both were in the wall before you could say, "AJ's your uncle". The margin for error at Indy is almost zero.