Ran F225 out of gas

[skipper D]

Had a faulty fuel gauge cause me to run 2003 F225 out of fuel. Starboard ran rough but cleared out. Port motor wont start except on starter fluid. Have changed all filters and ball gets hard but wont start.

[Bilge Rat]

Is the filter cup on the motor filling up?
Verify fuel in the VST.
Attach a fuel pressure gauge to the rail.

[boscoe99]

Pump the primer ball until it is hard and hold it as long as you can. You are having to re-prime the entire system. Lot's of hoses, pumps, VST, check valves involved so it can take some time.

Open the drain valve on the VST and verify that fuel flows out when the primer ball is pumped.

If it still won't start then install a pressure gauge to measure VST fuel pump pressure. Electric fuel pumps don't like to be run without fuel in them. Hopefully, the pump(s) have not been damaged.

Then get the fuel quantity system fixed.

[skipper D]

I checked VST has fuel up to it, I tried pushing the relief value on the rail but couldn't get any air or fuel to come out. I then took off the high pressure fuel line where it connects to the rail, no fuel came out. Even cranked motor to see if I could get fuel to come out but nothing. took VST apart to clean it, no obstructions.

[boscoe99]

Can you here/feel the VST pump run for several seconds when the key is turned on? No fuel out the schrader valve is not a good sign.

[kajikikai]

Can you here/feel the VST pump run for several seconds when the key is turned on? No fuel out the schrader valve is not a good sign.

What does that mean when no fuel comes out of Schrader valve? I got a 2006 90F that does not have fuel out of Schrader valve but getting 40 psig at the rail. My motor is missing after 2500 rpms. Sorry for hijacking this thread but hope it helps both of us!
Thanks in advance!

[rodbolt17]

on the F225, sometimes you have to remove the check valve at the top of the airbox port side to allow the VST to vent.

you could also have a blockage in the lift pump.

you could also have a damaged high pressure pump.

on the F90, your either on the wrong Schrader valve or your gauge wont depress it.
if it runs at all you have some kind of rail pressure.

on the F90, the valve that is recessed in the VST top is for venting only and should never have fuel.

[rodbolt17]

if your not a mechanic don't say things until you know.
yes Virginia running that lift pump OR the vst pump low can and will burn them up.
its a blow through design.
means gasoline flows from the pump rotor, through and around the armature, through the brushs and out the outlet.
fuel is what keeps the pump from overheating and disentergrating.
some seem to be more durable than others.

lets say that last few hundred yards that VST or lift pump was sucking more air than fuel, ran, ran like snot. but hey it ran.

now not only is the pump not cooling but like any non-shunt wound DC electric motor all it knows is it needs to go faster.

to go faster it needs more current.
more current produces even more heat.
and we still don't have frictional heat.

so yes Virginia running low/out of fuel can be a costly mistake.
you don't want to know what we call folks that rely on gas gauges.

hopefully you can get the VST reprimed(full) and continue on.
if not and you did lunch a pump you can figgue both pumps,injector cleaning and careful rail and fuel cooler flushing.

all that debris gotta go someplace.

[boscoe99]

You shouldn't have any fuel pump problems just 'cause you ran out of gas.. contrary to what others are telling you here.

The fuel pump inside the VST DOES need the gas to keep it cool, they tell me

just my opinion. I'm not a mechanic. cheers

I don't think anyone has said or suggested that running an electric fuel pump without fuel to cool and lubricate the pump should damage it. There is just the possibility that it might, just might,damage it.

Good practices mean don't do something wherein there is a possibility of damage.

It will be interesting to hear what the current problem is, once it is found and fixed. If the pump is inoperative, are you going to just imagine that it a coincidence that it just happened to have failed at the time the motor ran out of fuel? Just bad luck I suppose.

[skipper D]

In my case I was at dock warming up motors when they ran out. So they were idling. Unfortunately for me the marina I am at was sold at auction and new owners didn't sell fuel for a while. Tried refueling after coming back in after a trip and was told it would be sometime before they were going to sell fuel again. So went to slip knowing I was low on fuel.

[skipper D]

Boat is 4 hours away so I you let you know. Going back down this weekend and check if lift pump and VST pump appear to be working. Just wonder if when you unhook the fuel line at the rail and you pump the ball if that will allow fuel to pass?

[rodbolt17]

at the rail? no.
all the primer does is fill the Vapor Seperator Tank, hence the term VST.
think of the VST as a mini gas tank.
that's all it is.
it allows the high pressure pump a supply of bubble/vapor free gasoline.
the ONLY reason that engine has a VST and your car does not is the fact your car engine doesn't swivel in its mounts about 80* nor does the car engine tilt from about -7* to about +70*.
cars use a tank mounted high pressure pump,of the SAME design but use a metal tube to move fuel to the rail.

so back to the F225 in the 03 era.

there are two vents on the VST, one is the small metal inline air vent at the top port side of the air box.
the metal inline is an atmospheric vent to allow vapors to escape if pressure goes above about 5 psi in the vst.
it also allows air to be expelled from the VST during VST filling.

the other vent is the recessed schrader valve covered by a small rubber plug.
that vent is to allow VST draining.

at key on the high pressure pump will run for about 3 seconds.
the lift pump wont run until the engine does.

try having someone depress the drain valve while you try priming it.
that or use jumper leads and manually power up the lift pump.

[skipper D]

Thanks Rodbolt17. I will try that. There's no fuel between the VST and the fuel rail. Is there any way to purge that line?? Thanks for your help.

[rodbolt17]

its self purging, IF and only IF the high pressure pump runs AND there is fuel in the VST.