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  • Ongoing E10 Fuel Issues

    I run a 1997 Yamaha S200TXRV 2 stroke on a 1996 Grady White Adventure 208. The engine and boat have relatively low ours with mostly freshwater use. engine compression is consistent and in specification range. My problem is I've experienced a number of issues since E10 has been the only fuel available in my area. After a couple of years with water problems a few years ago I now use startron and Yamaha ring free/stabilizer with every addition of fresh fuel. I change the fuel/water separator filter and engine fuel filter way more than necessary and rarely find water in the fuel that I can see. I have replaced all fuel lines from the tank to the engine. However I have not replaced the dozen or so segmented fuel lines on the engine that feed the fuel pumps and three carbs. The original aluminum tank is very clean.

    The problem is every season I still have to make a trip to my dealer service department toward the season end to have the carbs cleaned. My symptom is the engine coughs/sneezes at idle and low rpms which stalls the engine. When the idle issue shows itself, the engine runs weak at higher rpm and does not develop full power. Sometimes it has barely runs when this happens, I've been lucky and have always made it back to port. Following carb cleaning the engine will run great with a stable idle and excellent acceleration and power at high rpms for another 50 plus hours.

    My mechanic tells me each time the carbs are cleaned that he finds particles (extremely small) in the carb circuits and minor oxidation of surfaces. He comments there is likely a small amount of water in the fuel in solution that causes the slight oxidation, but the bigger problem, caused by E10, is degradation of fuel system components that causes very small particles to make their way to the carbs and cause blockages.

    I usually discard fuel in early November and add fresh fuel, run the engine for 20 or 30 minutes and fog the engine. 5 months later in April I again discard the fuel (and use it in my car) and replace with fresh fuel and start up the engine. This off-season I was thinking about draining all fuel, blowing out all fuel lines, draining carb float bowls.

    Has anyone experienced and successfully managed the issue I describe? What else can I try to do to prevent contamination of the carbs when E10 is the only available fuel? Has anyone tried additional filters on the engine or other additives/stabilizers? The never happened to me when gas use to be pure with no E10. thanks
    1996 Grady White Adventure 208
    1997 Yamaha 200 Saltwater Series II

  • #2
    welcome to the US govt marine technician stimulous program.


    the dumbest thing ever shoved down the US taxpayers throat.

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    • #3
      are you running a 10 micron filter?
      If these particles are coming from the tank ,it should catch them.
      If they are coming from lines past the filters then you would need to replace those lines

      May need to pick up a service manual for your motor if you do not have one already and start going through your carbs yourself at the 1st sign of problems.

      Running lean for any period of time is not good for the motor

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      • #4
        Yes, big 10 micron filters if you don't have them. The on engine ones are not adequate. I just changed my 10 microns and dumped them into a white bucket. I could not believe all the crap. And that's just from dumping them not cutting them open. I imagine there is alot more in them.

        And I change twice a season. LOTS of rust! tell me where that is coming from. Not my aluminum tanks! Must be the marina's storage tanks or somewhere else down the line.

        BTW the fuel lines in the motor tend to not deteriorate like the rubber external lines.
        Last edited by BQUICK; 11-05-2013, 05:35 PM.

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        • #5
          Maybe learn to drain each carb float chamber at least a couple of times per year and definitely for and lay-up periods of several weeks or months....a very helpful preventive maintenance procedure...good luck!...

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          • #6
            There are a surprising number of places that carry E0. Not all are near the water, supplying other recreational users. Web sites such as pure-gas.org can help. I carry cans to my boat if i must to avoid E10.

            Comment


            • #7
              Being my 50 gallon fuel tank is original from 1997 (never pulled, cleaned,drained, etc) I was starting to pick up water in the tank. I do have a 10 micron fuel/water separator on the transom besides the Yamaha engine filter.

              I found the water droplets in the fuel pump after draining it. Initially, it was very cloudy, then the water separated. Besides going and purchasing non- ethonol fuel, I found a product that actually works re water in the system accumlating.

              Its called K100. It makes the water MIX with the fuel so you actually BURN OFF THE WATER as you run the engine. Its also a fuel stabilizer. You can literally mix equal amounts of fuel, water and the recommended amount of K100 and it will mix and NOT SEPARATE.

              My F150 sips fuel, so it took me awhile to get it all out, which it did. The fuel coming out is NOW super clear, not cloudy, smells fresh, the engine runs like a top.

              Just for S&G's, mix that Startron like I posted above, you'll see the different fluids separate with the Startron inbetween...(IMHO, useless)

              Its not cheap, but overall, its a whole lot easier and cheaper than pulling a fuel tank, dumping fuel, cleaning carbs, etc.. I don't put fuel in the boat anymore without it, it works that well.... Highly recommended....


              K100 Fuel Treatment You want the K100 MG


              And no, I don't work for the company.


              From their web site:

              Boats and off-road equipment with "open" fuel systems where the tank is vented to the atmosphere are especially vulnerable to condensation. Newer marine and off-road (red-dye) fuels compound this problem:

              •ULSD contains up to a 10-fold increase in water due to hydro-treating at the refinery, so microbe colonies and destructive acids form quickly.
              •E-10 gasoline is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) and is subject to phase separation - which may make an engine difficult or impossible to start.
              Water reduces the heat of combustion which means more smoke, less power, hard starting, rough idle, poor mileage, winter freeze-ups - and microbe growth. K100 eliminates water by encapsulating it with a combustible organic shell. Over time the water is removed by running the engine and "burning" it off. The tank will not have to be drained to remove the water contamination once enough K100 has been added to encapsulate all the water. Eliminating free water eliminates corrosion and the conditions necessary for microbe growth in ULSD and prevents phase separation in E-10 gasoline.
              Last edited by TownsendsFJR1300; 04-08-2014, 08:49 PM.
              Scott
              1997 Angler 204, Center Console powered by a 2006 Yamaha F150TXR

              Comment


              • #8
                I use it as well. Side benefit was that top speed went up a hair as well as mpg.

                Some people argue that it contains alcohol....that is true. But there are many types of alcohols. The butanediols are not a problem. Actually there is talk of using them instead of ethanol. That would be great! An alcoho1 that increases mpg and has no separation issues instead of the crap we have now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BQUICK View Post
                  I use it as well. Side benefit was that top speed went up a hair as well as mpg.

                  Some people argue that it contains alcohol....that is true. But there are many types of alcohols. The butanediols are not a problem. Actually there is talk of using them instead of ethanol. That would be great! An alcoho1 that increases mpg and has no separation issues instead of the crap we have now.
                  Yep, I've been using it for a couple of years. Bought/learned about it at the local motorcycle shop (they had a bunch of different products all lined up including Startron and others).

                  I ended up buying a CASE of it on-line awhile ago and have one large bottle left (already went thru 3 large ones plus some smaller ones from the shop)...

                  Absolutly amazing stuff...
                  Scott
                  1997 Angler 204, Center Console powered by a 2006 Yamaha F150TXR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TownsendsFJR1300 View Post
                    I found a product that actually works re water in the system accumlating.

                    Its called K100. It makes the water MIX with the fuel so you actually BURN OFF THE WATER as you run the engine. Its also a fuel stabilizer. You can literally mix equal amounts of fuel, water and the recommended amount of K100 and it will mix and NOT SEPARATE.
                    You know what I think, if the govt and fuel companies are putting this ethanol into our gas supply, and its is obviously causing problems. Wreaks havoc in my mower, chain saw, kids mini bike, my weed eater, etc.... AND there is a solution, a chemical that can be added, then why don't they just sell all fuel with the correction already added!

                    I know, the cost. They should at least offer in the premium concoction, a no problem brand.

                    Even the 90 oct non ethanol is crap in three months. I can feel it in the mower and cycles.
                    If its got teats or tires, you bound to have trouble with it....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FabricGATOR View Post
                      You know what I think, if the govt and fuel companies are putting this ethanol into our gas supply, and its is obviously causing problems. Wreaks havoc in my mower, chain saw, kids mini bike, my weed eater, etc.... AND there is a solution, a chemical that can be added, then why don't they just sell all fuel with the correction already added!

                      I know, the cost. They should at least offer in the premium concoction, a no problem brand.

                      Even the 90 oct non ethanol is crap in three months. I can feel it in the mower and cycles.
                      It s y understanding it takes more energy to produce ethonol fuel than regular fuel, which is such a bunch of government, feel good, crap.

                      Most folks don't know how hard that stuff is on the fuel systems of their cars, etc.

                      Now there are a few stations (besides Marina's) that offer Non-ethonol fuel for cars (with road taxes and other taxes), at least down here, (the closest being about 15 miles away)..

                      Its all BS shoved down our throats and we get to pay the price.. Rant done...
                      Scott
                      1997 Angler 204, Center Console powered by a 2006 Yamaha F150TXR

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                      • #12
                        Hey Scott,

                        Who did you buy the K100 from online? I was just looking on they're website and they didnt have any local vendors for me on the Treasure Coast.

                        I'M looking at Marshall Distributing now. Looking for a five gallon pail.
                        If its got teats or tires, you bound to have trouble with it....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FabricGATOR View Post
                          Hey Scott,

                          Who did you buy the K100 from online? I was just looking on they're website and they didnt have any local vendors for me on the Treasure Coast.

                          I'M looking at Marshall Distributing now. Looking for a five gallon pail.
                          I ordered it from their internet site (posted above). For a case of 4 bottles, S&H was $13.00 (might be a ittle more now) to SW Florida. (ordered 4-2-12, $112.99 total)

                          Even with the shipping, its probably cheaper than going thru a middle man...

                          BTW, I wasn't aware they had a 5 gallon pail, that'll last for years (and cost a small fortune)
                          Last edited by TownsendsFJR1300; 11-07-2013, 10:25 PM.
                          Scott
                          1997 Angler 204, Center Console powered by a 2006 Yamaha F150TXR

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                          • #14
                            I looked for distributors, gave up and emailed for info on a 5 gallon pail.

                            Initial treatment of 1:150 treats 800 gallons. Ongoing treatment is double at 1600 gallons. I will let everyone know about the pail price.

                            Quote from website: "Too little K100 does no good, too much K100 does no harm."

                            Now that's a sales pitch...
                            Last edited by FabricGATOR; 11-07-2013, 10:26 PM. Reason: grammer
                            If its got teats or tires, you bound to have trouble with it....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FabricGATOR View Post
                              I looked for distributors, gave up and emailed for info on a 5 gallon pail.

                              Initial treatment of 1:150 treats 800 gallons. Ongoing treatment is double at 1600 gallons. I will let everyone know about the pail price.

                              Quote from website: "Too little K100 does no good, too much K100 does no harm."

                              Now that's a sales pitch...

                              Yes it is. I did find this on-line order link, but the pail wasn't there (maybe too heavy??):

                              K100-MG Fuel Treatment for Marine Gas | Fuel Treatment for Marine Gasoline


                              Just ordered four, 32oz bottles. Same price too!!!
                              Last edited by TownsendsFJR1300; 11-07-2013, 10:43 PM. Reason: added info
                              Scott
                              1997 Angler 204, Center Console powered by a 2006 Yamaha F150TXR

                              Comment

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