2001 150 HPDI one cylinder not firing

[rf246_sid]

update

Pulser coil was installed yesterday. I made it over today to pick it up. Headed out into the canal and the idle was just not feeling right. Hit the channel and the best I could get was 4300 rpm at WOT. We might have picked up a few hundred rpm w/the coil replacement. ???????

Called the shop reporting my lack of enthusiasm w/the results. They said they had it out twice and were over 5k on both trips. I have no reason to think these folks would try to blow something that obvious by me. Back to the shop.

What do you guys think? Am i going to hear that the coils have a problem again on Monday? When this problem arrived, it came all at once, not like there were multiple things going on. I'm starting to feel a little skeptical about the analysis.
Thanks.

[rodbolt17]

and now you own a spare pulser coil assy.
keep it, its good.

like I said, a failed or irregular output will trigger a code for pulser coil and/or injector.

pulser coil voltage is easy to measure, and if its low there is an UNLOADED test.
just because the output is low doesn't mean that component is bad.

[rf246_sid]

Yes, it would seem that way. Maybe I can get a few bucks for it on Ebay!! Not a great investment, particularly with the labor surcharge. From the explanation I got, what you described is what happened. They measured the voltage on the pulser coils. Two were low. One described as much worse than the other. Conclusion was to replace the coil assembly. Although they didn't mention the codes, other than clearing them after replacing the coil, I assume it was as you suggested that the code indicated coil and/or injector and they figured the voltages supported coils. Not giving me a lot of confidence in the degree or thoroughness being used. What is the "UNLOADED test" testing? Is that a secondary test on the coils in a no voltage state?

So was this an expensive way of indicating what is now likely an injector issue
or still scratching around in the unknown?
Thanks

[rodbolt17]

in the service manual there is a test for loaded. unloaded and at various RPM's.

unloaded simply means unplugged.

the six pulser coils are used to trigger an ign coil AND an injector.

injector voltage should be about 95V peak.

that ign system is a 12V tci ign, the pulser just times it.

[rf246_sid]

Chapter 6...
Shop re-tested the boat. Found a loose plug wire. Said they probably just didn't put it on good the first time around or maybe knocked it putting the hood back on after the first round of testing. Re-tested and all is good again.

Plan to be leaving work a little early to give it another go myself and see what happens. Don't want to get my hopes up, but this seems like a plausible scenario. Once you start monkeying around under the hood, things like a loose wire are somewhat more likely to pop up I suppose. But you'd think they would have snugged them all down....??? whatever.

I know these guys are busting their tails right now with end of season work here up north. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. Hoping there is only one more chapter...the CONCLUSION! stay tuned.

[rf246_sid]

Conclusion

Well, it's running like a top. Honestly, I was pretty skeptical, but I can't argue w/the results. Went out for a brief run in 30 mph wind and rain, no issues. In fact, it is the best it has run all year. It was time for those filters and plugs I put in before going to the shop for the pulser coil assembly.

I'm happy w/the result, but I sure wish the shop would have communicated more openly about what was being done. I'm no five star mechanic, but I'm also no dummy. All they want to do is take the key at the front desk and hand it back "fixed". It is near impossible to get three minutes of time with the tech to really know what is going on. I understand they can't have everybody jabbering w/the tech all day, but a simple , "i ran these tests, got these codes" would have sufficed. Lack of communication really left me wondering about the capability of the guys in the back room. The "loose wire" scenario was kind of the icing on the cake in that regard.

Thanks to Rodbolt and 99yam40 for your considerable expertise and providing valuable input to keep me thinking straight along the way.

[99yam40]

It is nice to know what to test and what test equipment to use, and it is in Service manual for your motor.

If you cannot get your hands on the test equipment then it is up to you to find the correct shop.

Yes it would be good to have some info from them as to what they tested and what the results were, but unless you can ask the proper questions they will not give you much info.

Glad it is running well again

[rf246_sid]

Epilogue

y, i agree. I think i was over-grumbling because they put a big black bumper smear on the side of my hull and kind of trashed the interior. I was a little surprised how hard it is to find a yamaha master tech up here. Yamaha site only identified one within a hundred miles of me (detroit), and he was closer to "100" in my case. But perhaps worth the trip in the right situation.

This thread was very educational, for me at least. I was missing a key point from a Rodbolt post in another thread. I quoted it:

"if a pulser coil fails on the F115 it locks ign timing at 10 degrees BTDC,idle speed goes to about 1000 RPM,fuel is fixed and top speed cannot be reached and both ign coils are con*****ed by the ECU and all 4 plugs spark."

I was having a hard time getting it through my head why i was getting spark on all 6 cyls. I think that observation along with the symptoms was a key indicator along the diagnosis path. Not conclusive by itself, but a good sign.

[99yam40]

not sure why you keep talking about a F115 when you have a HPDI

[rf246_sid]

that was the motor Rodbolt was talking about in the other thread i referenced. The quote is specific to pulser coil behavior in the F115. But, for my purposes, it was just general information about pulser coil behavior, and it may or may not have been directly applicable to my HPDI 150. Turns out, it was somewhat applicable because the behavior on the F115 and the HPDI 150 is pretty much the same when the bad coil condition is picked up by the ECU. ECU basically removes the pulser coils from the equation and allows the motor to continue to function in a degraded mode, but actually running on all cylinders. (spark on all cylinders at least) Rodbolt stated it this way for the F115, but it appears that Yamaha has taken the same approach with pulser coil failure in other models.

[99yam40]

the HPDI uses six pulser coils to operate the six injectors and the six plugs.
lose a pulser coil and the engine defaults.
fuel and spark are now con*****ed by the CPS and the TPS.
ign timing is FIXED at 7* BTDC idle speed is high and top speed cannot be reached.
but it will run.
you will also get a code 13 and possibly a code 26.
see it will troubleshoot itself.

rf246
I just thought you would be quoting what he said about the HPDI instead of the F115 after he wrote this in your thread

[Casenj43]

Im having some what of a similar problem with my 200 hpdi no alarms on pulsar coil hooked up to yds in the yard fuel pressure looks good im just not seeing the ignition timing stick to 7 BTDC its around 3 to 4 BTDC in neutral And hangs around 575 to 600 rpms put in in gear sometimes it goes to TDC or ATDC 1 to 4. Ive checked the injector it only seems like it doing it on cylinder 6 and possibly cylinder 4. Im running out of ideas..

ohh and its a vz200tlra if that helps!

[boscoe99]

Im having some what of a similar problem with my 200 hpdi no alarms on pulsar coil hooked up to yds in the yard fuel pressure looks good im just not seeing the ignition timing stick to 7 BTDC its around 3 to 4 BTDC in neutral And hangs around 575 to 600 rpms put in in gear sometimes it goes to TDC or ATDC 1 to 4. Ive checked the injector it only seems like it doing it on cylinder 6 and possibly cylinder 4. Im running out of ideas..

ohh and its a vz200tlra if that helps!

This is a six year old thread? You would not write in another mans book would you?

Op's problem appeared to be ignition related. You are mentioning your injectors?

Two motors having the exact same symptoms could have completely different problems.

Start a new thread please.