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**rf246_sid** · 10-10-2013, 10:57 PM

update

I got the spark checker out and did some additional testing after work. Spark visually looks good on all cyls with the inline tester. Moved the coils and plugs around. Appears that the one suspect cyl is consistently non-functional. The plug in that cyl looks wet after each test, so it appears fuel is getting delivered.

The correct cyls drop at idle in neutral and kick in when put in gear.

I'm thinking a compression test next? If that's ok, any suggestions on where to head after that?

**99yam40** · 10-11-2013, 07:47 AM

injector would be my thoughts
Too much fuel or too little will not let cylinder fire properly

**rf246_sid** · 10-11-2013, 02:21 PM

update...

Two more bits of information:

Compression test result
Run cold because i was in a hurry, but all cyls were between 105 and 110. I was primarily concerned that i didn't have a catastrophic failure going on in that one cyl, so this would seem to put that fear to rest.

Fuel and Injector observation. Y, agree with the comment. My thoughts have turned in that direction. A new observation in the fuel system. Noticed i had a slight leak in the drain valve on the Racor. It is the type with the clear plastic bowl on the bottom with the drain valve on it. I had a hint of something going on here about the time my troubles started, but neglected to perform a careful examination of the situation. I have heard that even very small leaks in the fuel lines can cause trouble, but have not been down that road yet myself to have learned the lesson. Could the Racor drain tiny leak impact the fuel system pressure enough to cause my problems? I don't have the tools to do the fuel system pressure checks, but fixing the Racor is within my capabilities!!! (which i will do and test, but would like to hear from the pro's some info on how sensitive this fuel system is to a situation like this.)
Thanks.

**99yam40** · 10-11-2013, 08:16 PM

being on the suction side of pumps , a leak will suck air in if fuel can leak out.
But do not see a reason it would affect just one cylinder

**rf246_sid** · 10-13-2013, 09:19 PM

I have to back off that suggestion that it is missing on only one cylinder. I made that assumption based on inspection of the new plugs I put in after a short test run. After looking at it further, i can't really tell for sure what is going on w/particular cylinders. The spark test shows good on all cylinders.

Restating the behavior, I would just say that i now see consistent lack of power, RPM's max out at about 3500 or so, idle seems a little fast.

This weekend i replaced the two top side filters under the hood: small canister strainer in the high pressure region and the screen on the bottom of the pump in the VST. I was not able to get my hands on a replacement for the one in the clear bowl yet. I thought the filter change might get the job done. It has been a couple years since replaced and the symptoms were very similar the last time when the filter change fixed it. No luck this time around. Symptoms persisted.

I also tested with a portable fuel tank and bulb, removing everything in front of the inbound fuel line to the motor. No change.

A little more history that may be relevant, but maybe not so much since I tested with a portable tank and line. I replace the RACOR element and added a fuel flow sensor about six weeks ago. No issues with that service for several weeks prior to this current malfunction.

Running out of ideas.

**99yam40** · 10-14-2013, 09:41 AM

You have not said anything about monitoring fuel pressures or hooking up to a computer

You need to get that motor hooked up to a lap top so all things can be monitored to see what is going on.

There are screens/filters inside HP pump and injectors that can plug also.

Restrictions should be easy to see except in the injectors, but they can be sent off to be flow tested and cleaned

**rf246_sid** · 10-14-2013, 02:33 PM

Agree and your advice has been taken. Motor is at the shop today. I have crept into the "unknown" as far as what makes sense without the data you reference.

Lacking more equipment and time, it time to look for some professional assistance. I will continue to post progress updates.

**madharchod** · 10-14-2013, 06:07 PM

get your injectors serviced ,if the engine is running and one cylinder is not working that tells the story its time for injector service

**rf246_sid** · 10-16-2013, 05:23 PM

Diagnosis is failing pulsar coil. Weak on one cylinder, dead on another. Sound reasonable? I didn't know how to test it, so sounds plausible to me. Bill is $525.

**99yam40** · 10-16-2013, 06:01 PM

hopefully Rodbolt will post, I have no idea how many pulser coils are on that motor and what cylinders would be affected buy one going bad.
But I would not think only one cylinder would be affected

Never mind I just reread that it may not have been only one.

Sounds kind of high for just replacing pulser coil , but what do I know

**rf246_sid** · 10-16-2013, 09:40 PM

Rodbolt had some interesting comments about pulser coil behavior in an old thread, 369735. Different motor by far, but the symptoms i got are quite similar: idle speed is up, spark on all cyls, can't get to top speed.

QUOTE:the F115 WONT stall at pulser coil failure. actually it may or may not stall at initial failure but will restart.
keep hunting.
if a pulser coil fails on the F115 it locks ign timing at 10 degrees BTDC,idle speed goes to about 1000 RPM,fuel is fixed and top speed cannot be reached and both ign coils are con*****ed by the ECU and all 4 plugs spark.
look for Four stroke systems certs,advanced systems or advanced 4 stroke on his shop wall.
no alarm tone for sensor or pulser coil failures.
ANY sensor failure will make it idle at about 900 RPM and top speed may or may not be reached depending on the failure.

Looking at the parts diagram, i see it is just a single unit up under the flywheel, not six separate "coils". MSRP is $146, so it's not a killer as far as cost goes. I don't know if there are any misc items that are jacking up the cost, but if not, it looks like about 3.5 hrs worth of labor all told to get to that $525 figure. I'm sure it would take me at least that long just to put the new part on so ??? If he's dead on with the fix, I won't be feeling too bad about that price.

**rodbolt17** · 10-19-2013, 09:23 AM

the HPDI uses six pulser coils to operate the six injectors and the six plugs.
lose a pulser coil and the engine defaults.
fuel and spark are now con*****ed by the CPS and the TPS.
ign timing is FIXED at 7* BTDC idle speed is high and top speed cannot be reached.
but it will run.
you will also get a code 13 and possibly a code 26.
see it will troubleshoot itself.

**rf246_sid** · 10-20-2013, 09:13 PM

Rodbolt, are the six pulser coils all contained in that one unit, 68F-85580-00-00
COIL, PULSER, in the parts list? (ring under the stator assembly)
When i hear "six coils", my head tells me they should be individually items, but the part diagram looks like it tells a different story.
Thanks for the info.

**rodbolt17** · 10-20-2013, 09:32 PM

yes, there are six coils fed with a common ground .
that's why there are 6 colored leads and one black lead.
that ground lead is common to all 6 pulser coils.
its how the ECU determines when to fire a spark plug and an injector.
#1 pulser coil fires #1 cyl and #3 injector and so on down the line.
ALL injection on HPDI is sequential. no asequential operation.

however the coils are monitored for outputs to the ECU.

I have seen one fail on a VZ250 but the ECU did not catch it.
was due to overvolt.
at 69V it would drop #3 injector.

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2001 150 HPDI one cylinder not firing

2001 150 HPDI one cylinder not firing

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