2014 15 hp pull-start won't start when cold

[99yam40]

If it lost wax it would not shut it off properly just opposite of that you were saying.
the heated wax pushes it closed when heated up

[pstephens46]

OP said starting was an issue when the motor was new. Shame it wasn't replaced under warranty. Just saying......

Over at TOS it would be recommended that a lawyer should be retained by the OP for possible "breach of prior warranty."

[boscoe99]

Very true! Too bad 1/4 of a BOAT unit is greater than 10% of the cost of the motor!

I'll try taking the whole PS system off and running 12V through it to verify it is broken. It seemed like there was a little bit of waxy residue on the outer shell of the unit. It flaked off and rolled in between my fingers like wax. Not sure how it would escape the housing like that. Thank you both for the speedy responses.

I would try putting some marking dye on the needle seat if I could. Then lower the device into the carburetor to verify that the needle is actually closing the system off when it is cold. The needle contacting the seat should cause dye to transfer to the tip of the needle.

[boscoe99]

Page 4-13 in this SM has a test procedure for the Primestart component. Easy enough to see if the needle has the correct length when it is cold. Cold being 75* F.

https://www.vansoutboardparts.com/se...a-f15-f20/file

[boscoe99]

OP said starting was an issue when the motor was new. Shame it wasn't replaced under warranty. Just saying......

Over at TOS it would be recommended that a lawyer should be retained by the OP for possible "breach of prior warranty."

And if the warranty remedy was not the supply of a brand new EFI model then Yamaha would be burned at the stake. With many many references to crap product and customer support.

[pstephens46]

I would try putting some marking dye on the needle seat if I could. Then lower the device into the carburetor to verify that the needle is actually closing the system off when it is cold. The needle contacting the seat should cause dye to transfer to the tip of the needle.

Looking back at your "Feverish" post. I read this as the needle closes or contacts the seat when the wax warms up. Cold should be open, correct? Open as in more fuel flowing.

[boscoe99]

Yes, cold = needle retracted. Allows gasoline to flow. Warm = need extended. Stops gasoline flow.

[panasonic]

I have worked on several of these F15's with prime start on them. They all had the same complaint.. having to haul and haul many times to get it to start. The starter jet into which the needle closes off when the engine warms up is very small and prone to plugging up. After dissembling the carbs (which looked very clean at first glance) I found that passage blocked. Only after much prodding and compressed air with a very fine tip on the air gun was I able to clear that passage. One of the engines had a bad thermo heater after testing with a 12 volt battery, and yes it had a waxy feel to it.

The engines that had the plugged starter passages then started normally. Now when I say "normally" for these engines what I believe is 6-7 good sharp pulls on the cord. My buddy has one of them since new and he said it was always 8-9 pulls to get going when new (he used to pull it over 30-40 times when it got plugged up) I started using it some and could get it going in 3-4 pulls by opening the throttle a bit off off the start position and hauling very hard.

Once warmed up it starts with half a haul.

Why could they not have left well enough alone and left the good old butterfly choke on these small engines? Most are tiller handle/pull start anyway and you are right there starting them....not so hard to pull out the choke knob is it?

[dray0151]

[QUOTE=panasonic;n201593

Why could they not have left well enough alone and left the good old butterfly choke on these small engines? Most are tiller handle/pull start anyway and you are right there starting them....not so hard to pull out the choke knob is it? [/QUOTE]

All done so you ask why! An engineer or two or three have now justified their job and pay.

[boscoe99]

I am guessing that the situation is that folks (1) wanted automation and (2) were forgetting to push the choke knob back in. Being the old dog that I am, and remembering cars with pull chokes and push-the-throttle-to-set the somewhat automatic chokes, it was all too common to go down the road behind a car that was belching black smoke. The guy forgot to push the choke knob back in. It was a reminder to check your own. Damn, I left the choke knob out. Again. Maybe the EPA also has a hand in it being automatic.

Now the EPA mandating ever smaller idle jets has not helped the cold start dilemma.

But you raise a very good point. There are carburetor cleanings and there are carburetor cleanings. All too often folks think they have cleaned them when it is maybe not so. Hard to see inside some of those super tiny passageways. My own personal experience was that without a heated ultrasonic cleaner using a good cleaning solution, and verifying that orifices and passageways were truly open, I was wasting my time. Even then it could be hit of miss.

[panasonic]

I am guessing that the situation is that folks (1) wanted automation and (2) were forgetting to push the choke knob back in. Being the old dog that I am, and remembering cars with pull chokes and push-the-throttle-to-set the somewhat automatic chokes, it was all too common to go down the road behind a car that was belching black smoke. The guy forgot to push the choke knob back in. It was a reminder to check your own. Damn, I left the choke knob out. Again. Maybe the EPA also has a hand in it being automatic.

Now the EPA mandating ever smaller idle jets has not helped the cold start dilemma.

But you raise a very good point. There are carburetor cleanings and there are carburetor cleanings. All too often folks think they have cleaned them when it is maybe not so. Hard to see inside some of those super tiny passageways. My own personal experience was that without a heated ultrasonic cleaner using a good cleaning solution, and verifying that orifices and passageways were truly open, I was wasting my time. Even then it could be hit of miss.

Yes......I believe I did.

[boscoe99]

Pan - You being an aviation man know very well that there are some components that it does not make sense for the typical A&P man (do you use that term up there?) to be working on. In some cases we are not allowed to down here. Radios, electronics, hydraulic valve bodies, servos, etc., come to mind. They might be removed by the mechanic but they are usually sent to a shop for service by a specialty shop. Too bad that the outboard motor industry does not have specialty shops where stuff like carburetors, trim and tilt units and gear cases could be sent for service work. When it comes to the new Yamaha digital engine control stuff I am informed that if and when it breaks it is thrown away and a new one installed. No specialty shops available anywhere to service/repair them.

[dray0151]

I don't know I am old to but I don't seem to have any issues starting my mowers both four stroke and two stroke that have a manual choke one being a Lawn boy and one a Cub Cadet. As Panasonic said you are for the most part setting right there by the engine. Of course then you see people all the time running down the road with their gas tank door open???

[boscoe99]

I recently bought an identical replacement Honda mower. Or so I thought. It has one speed (wide open) and an automatic choke. I hate it.

[dray0151]

I love my old Lawn Boy, It's about 18 years old now and runs like a top. Still starts if not the first pull then for sure on the second.