New Member Intro And F150 Ground Cable Question

[boscoe99]

there are, for example, 3 part numbers for 11.2 ft. cables;
one for 3.3L 2-stroke, one for 3.3L F200/225 and one for 3.3L F250

are there differences? if so, what?

Perhaps Boscoe will tell us.

The differences usually are due to the terminal fitting design and/or the distance in length between the two terminal fittings. For instance

[boscoe99]

My general thoughts as to battery cables and wire construction in general are:

Use the largest size of wire that is practical for the installation. Err on the side of too large if in doubt. You only want to be buying wire one time.

Use the least number of connections possible. This eliminates power posts, which IMO are a band approach in lieu of installing new cables.

Crimp and properly solder the terminal to the cable. Particularly so with respect to a high current carrying cable such as those used to start a motor. Yes, factory Yamaha cables are soldered. Both Mercury Marine and Yamaha recommend the use of solder when attaching a terminal to the cable. To mitigate the possibility of corrosion in the connection leading to voltage drop.

Support the cable as close to the terminal as is possible.

Use simple on/off switches instead of the Blue Seas/BEP cluster f____ switches. Use the engine isolator leads to charge a second battery or better still a Yandina Combiner.

I have not seen every Yamaha gauge or display but every Yamaha gauge or display I have seen usually displays less voltage than the actual voltage when measured directly at the battery. It seems to be in the gauge/display itself which is then compounded by voltage drop due to the length of wiring and the number of connections. Maybe it is Yamaha being conservative.

[jupiter2360]

After consulting a local volume yamaha dealer and forum feedbacks I am going with my gut instinct. Going to be a little more pricey but am going to abandon all the powerposts and Yamaha OEM cables and going to install new 2 AWG straight from motors to battery switches. Going to use one pos and one neg cable of course from each engine and make up new cables for the common grounds between batteries and new pos cables up to switches. I will solder the lugs after crimping as well. This should eliminate cable issues in the future and allow me to sleep better in the Bahamas this summer. Hope I do not have to much trouble pulling the wires but sure I'll get it without bleeding to much. As far as the lower gauge voltage I will report back if their is a change but the dealer indicated they are sometimes just that way and no adjustment as far as he knows. Thanks for inputs.

[pstephens46]

I was under the impression that one should solder first and crimp secondly. Generally.

[pstephens46]

Fairdeal posted this regarding terminals. Never used them but hope to one day.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SXDkNMDDrBs

[99yam40]

I was under the impression that one should solder first and crimp secondly. Generally.

Need to get the mechanical connection good and tight before the solder flows.
no need to try to get a good mechanical connection between the lug and copper cable with the solder getting in the way.
If the joint gets hot, the solder will melt out , and then you have no good connection.
fuses melt away just like the fusable links

[boscoe99]

I find that just hitting the fitting with a brick will do a great job of joining the terminal to the wire.

[panasonic]

After consulting a local volume yamaha dealer and forum feedbacks I am going with my gut instinct. Going to be a little more pricey but am going to abandon all the powerposts and Yamaha OEM cables and going to install new 2 AWG straight from motors to battery switches. Going to use one pos and one neg cable of course from each engine and make up new cables for the common grounds between batteries and new pos cables up to switches. I will solder the lugs after crimping as well. This should eliminate cable issues in the future and allow me to sleep better in the Bahamas this summer. Hope I do not have to much trouble pulling the wires but sure I'll get it without bleeding to much. As far as the lower gauge voltage I will report back if their is a change but the dealer indicated they are sometimes just that way and no adjustment as far as he knows. Thanks for inputs.

Will #2 AWG cables even go through the grommets on the engine cowl? Not much flex in them either.

[jupiter2360]

I have some HF hydraulic crimpers and will be crimping prior to heating and flowing solder into closed end lug held in down position by a vice. I will not be using the solder plug system. The 2006 OEM yamaha cables are joined and appear to be about 2 AWG. Numerous folks have told me to get rid of the factory cables (pre-2012 or so OEM Yamaha cables) as they commonly become problematic (listen for crunching noises when bending) as well as getting rid of the powerposts if possible. AWG cables (especially Pacer wire) have much smaller individual strands than SAE wire and I find the AWG to be very flexible. 2 AWG is much smaller diameter than 2/0 AWG maybe there is confusion about gauge but I don't expect a problem in grommet and if so will enlarge hard rubber grommet holes just slightly but lubing well and obviously installing lugs after pulling through grommet should work. Tip try to keep the lube from getting on the outer surfaces of the grommet because it doesn't want to hold in the lower cowl very well. I compared some Ancor 2 AWG I had to the 1/0 SAE I removed and found them visually pretty close in diameter in the actual copper wire bundle but much more flexible and and about double the number of actual strands..

I may snipe off the large cable tie of the grommet to peek and measure grommet holes (just re-zipped up last weekend after pulling the 10 AWG for the auxiliary charging lead) before making the purchase tomorrow of about $300 of cables and lugs at about $2.74/ft. for new 2 AWG tinned marine wire from Pacer manufactured in Fla.

Regardless got my son committed to assist this Sunday so I will find out.

[jupiter2360]

Forgot to mention I am pretty confident in the length of the wire run from engine studs to switches and it is about 24 feet (i needed and used 19.5 feet for the charge lead butt crimp in cowl to reach batteries in lower shelf of console. The switches are mounted up above batteries a bit.

Its a fair distance regarding voltage drop but the re-powering dealers I spoke to said they always 2 AWG with no problem with exception of the real large HP motors.Looking at the dealer tech bulletin table I am just barely in the 2 AWG size range for the run of extensions but by removing the powerposts and loosing some excess cabling I had with OEM cables I feel confident I am good regarding voltage drop.

Funny thing was the one Yamaha dealer who I asked about the single negative wire from the powerpost to batteries just laughed and stated you must have a Sailfish boat because they are one of the few that rigs at that factory that way. He felt Sailfish did it that way just to save manufacturing expense on 25' of wire per unit. He said he did not like the single negative but it works but any Sailfish repower they do gets new straight shot cables with two grounds and and no reusing OEM yamaha cables.

[zenoahphobic]

I find that just hitting the fitting with a brick will do a great job of joining the terminal to the wire.

I get the sarcasm, there seems an overwhelming opinion to crimp properly (with a correct tool) only and not to solder.
Various reasons are given that solder will eventually make the joint fail. However the argument for crimping only, often is flawed by statements such that all the air is crimped out so corrosion cannot occur, and Sulfuric acid does not attack copper.
I have to say: what massive pressure is required to crush all the wires together to expel all the air, and if this is true, why would not all the distorted and crushed wires not weaken the joint? Is the green stuff is an allusion ? Solder is still used in high tech, high reliable joints in electronic equipment.

[rodbolt17]

cause he coast guard says the wire must be mechanically fastened to the lug. look it up. solder may help but solder alone wont work for the USCG.
both motors have built in battery isolators, why not use them?
the bonding between the battery - terminals must be no smaller than the smallest ground cable, another USCG thing.

[jupiter2360]

Wanted to follow-up that we (my son and I) got the four cables ( 2 pos and 2 neg in 2 AWG) pulled from the engine studs to switches and neg post of batteries. Minimal trouble but required force and persistence as have 2 fairly large rigging tubes in box stringers from console to aft bilge. Had only one slip off of tape at end of cable to fish pull rope but was able to long needle nose grab end of cable poking out of tube. Had to run the 2 negatives in one rig tube because sailfish had used electrical tape every 12 inches to wrap a bundle of about 15 general wires of about 14 ga. to the existing one 1/0 positive and one 1/0 negative and wrapped this in 1.5 inch diameter split loom. A second 1/0 positive likely added when boat was ordered with twin engines was fortunately loose and outside of the loom (this may explain why Sailfish didn't bother with a second negative cable). I pulled the old loose 1/0 out and found it in good condition. I will be cutting the 1/0 close to rigging tubes and abandon the taped 2 cables in place as there was no way in heck I wanted to try disconnect the 15 smaller house circuit wires at either end at there switch or pump/light end.

Pulled 1/4 inch polypropylene rope through rigging tubes via existing smaller pull wires. Gorilla brand duct taped each cable to poly rope. Gorilla sticks very well to poly. Finished with electrical tape on top connection and lubed heavy the whole length of cable and pulled through rigging tubes. Used equate KY but Pacer recommended Astroglide and think it would be better as the KY dries a little and gets sticky but worked. Trust me more lube is better. I did not crimp or solder lugs on before pulling as I am not sure it would of pulled without even more difficulty. Have about 5 feet of extra cable on each run to give me clearance to crimp then put in vice and hit with micro-torch and feed the solder into lug on engine end then cut some excess and finish other ends inside the large console. The cable is sliding pretty easy now and I have not seen any chafe or nicks in jacket. I will slip over some split loom anywhere I see contact with an edge or other place

I used the OEM yam cables and tape joined them to each pos/neg cable, lubed heavily and fed in to TH marine rigging tube. Removed two bolts holding grommet holder from lower cowl and pulled on Yam cables towards engine. The grommet then just splays open. Had to remove primer bulb junction piece on TH rig tube to get through the bend of this tube. The new 2 AWG fits fine in the grommet where the OEMs were and is flexible enough to make the sharp turn to port in the lower cowl to head to the starter.

Bottom line it was a fair amount of work (still have a lot of lug crimping to do) and expense but I do feel better to have gotten rid of the powerposts and also shortening the length of cable to get to the engines. I can see pretty clearly now where the billable man-hours and a some material cost comes from when you re-power . This work can only help and removes an unknown about the condition of my cables. I hope I didn't jar any other wires loose as we were as careful as possible but will find out when I finish the lugs, install the new switches and reinstall the batteries and fire the engines up. curious to see the standing pre-start voltage on gauges now.

BTW nice sunny day here in low 70's but late afternoon got a dry cold front with North wind and chilly low 60s in late afternoon. Must be bad up North when it gets frigid down here.

[jupiter2360]

Forgot to mention the finished cable length for the 2 negatives is going be 21 feet. The 2 pos will be about 23 feet. I think I shortened cabling by 6 foot per cable (2 ft of excess OEM and 4 ft to powerposts and got a dedicated second negative installed too. Bought new 1 AWG to bring up power about 5 feet from batteries to switches and and two make three new 1 AG neg jumpers to get better continuity at the switches.

[donsmarine]

crimp 1st, solder 2nd, use rosin core solder not acid core.