Stalling Yamaha F150

[99yam40]

This tread is covering multiple problems, so it is hard to just say one thing about this or that. I would trust Rodbolts input.

My thoughts are that you have developed some fuel restriction problems along with your mass air flow censer problem, but I have been sucking down a few cool ones this evening, and I am not a master tech or even some one that works on these things everyday.

[Sparkieboat]

I do not blame you one bit Sierra, I am still waiting to find out whats up with my motor. I know that my local dealer does not represent the entirety of Yamaha..but to me HE does, because he is where Yamaha meets the customer. I finally gave them a call tuesday morning and had to leave a meassage. I was extremely polite and just asked for a phone call to let me know what was going on. 6 hours later I finally get a call from the service manager and he was very apologetic and used the word "sir" constantly, I guess in an attempt to show me that he respected me. (thats how we do it down here in the south anyway.)

He told me that the master tech had a death in his family and was about to start on my motor. He said he would call me back either later that afternoon but it would probably be wednesday morning. I told him "thank you for calling me and letting me know what was going on." well it is Thursday morning and I have still heard nothing. this dealership has been a real let down and disappointment to me..and I am sure that I will not get any discount or extra consideration from them.

I will be selling this F115 as soon as possible and putting my 1995 150 Evinrude 60 degree carbbed motor on the boat.

I took my bass boat out tuesday to fish out of..i was able to do this because it is NOT in the shop and never has been..it has a 1988 110 Evinrude that cranked and ran out great just like it always has..last year I replaced all 4 coils and the regulator/rectifier. it took me 30 minuets to diagnose the problems and 3 days to get the parts in and about 2 hours to install...my EFI yammy has been in the shop for over 1 1/2 weeks now and I still do not know any more than when I took it to them, and this is the off season..I could not imagine this being my only boat in July and having to take it in...I would certainly be without a boat for most or all summer..thats a major problem for me. I do not expect that any other dealership for any other brand of motor would treat me much different, they just seem to be use to having people at their mercy. so I will stick to a motor that I can diagnose and repair myself.

[high sierra]

stalling Yamaha

I apologize for my posting if I was too harsh. high sierra

[99yam40]

everyone has their own opinions and are entitled to have them and express them, but that is just my opinion

My guess is the MAP sensor and all filters and screens.


the filters and screens have not been addressed anywhere in this thread that I can find and sounds like you are having starvation problems now.

Did they swap the mass air flow sensor and did that stop the bad Baro readings?
If not then Rod said something else maybe drawing the voltage down

I really hope they come through soon and you will be able to give us a detailed report on what they finally did to fix it.

[high sierra]

Yamaha quality

I just talked to Yamaha Atlanta and basically got the brush off and was talked down too. I was very polite which is hard to do after 10 weeks. The Tec is still at the dealershop . Apparently we are throwing parts at the motor hoping it will fix itself. Atlanta says it it a phantom problem. They don't know what its causing the problem. Mine must be the only one in the US doing this. We don't have just one problem now , we have multiple. Atlanta did give high marks to the tec and said he was more than qualified. The fuel filter powder problem was not an issue they said. Vacuum is still low , 25.4...high sierra

[Sparkieboat]

it is cases like this which have in past times gone by totally unnoticed by most people..but now we have the internet and forums like this one where people are able to share information..I find it really disturbing that Yamaha reps have not done more to help you out..even if they just apologized and made you feel somewhat appreciated as a Yamaha customer. Maybe I just expect too much out of people/companies. If I was a Yamaha rep I would be going to bat for you to get a brand new motor..I mean this has gotten to the completely absurd level. No reason they should not have given you a brand new motor 5 weeks ago. I really appreciate you sharing your experience here in the forum. I can guarantee you I will shun Yamaha from this day froward, I will also let others that I know, know about your negative experience, and what I consider to be a lack of action by Yamaha. They should give you a brand new motor and ship this one to Atlanta and work on it till they figure it out, so this never ever happens to another Yamaha customer again...it is an obvious conclusion if you understand anything about customer relations/loyalty.

[rodbolt17]

10 words or less?
your engine has no magneto.
eliminates that anyway.
if this issue is hull side fuel related then installing a new engine would be pointless.
dunno why they cannot diagnoes a simple system.
the ign producing components have 1 moving part,the flywheel.
the ign is TCI, means its a 12V transistor controled ignition.
dirt simple to monitor with a stevens CD-77 meter for intermittant TCI coil primary fluctuations.
most the service reps and most the instructors have very limited to no actual field experience.
most the time I know more about the system than they do long before I call.
trouble shooting is NOT an art, it is a science.
first thing you have to know is exactly how the system works.
then start isolating what does not work.
fuel system issues are most typical and easy to test.
is fuel system vacum within limits? is fuel rail pressure steady and within limits at all RPM ranges?
ign system,like I say, can be monitored with a simple analog meter.
digital meters for intermittants are not prefered.
once you eliminate basic fuel and ign the rest is fuel control and ign control.
gasoline engines have a very very narrow window of air to fuel ratio to work with.
much above 15.5 parts of air to 1 part fuel its to lean to run.
much below 13 parts air to 1 part fuel its to rich to run.
gasoline simply wont burn in the combustion chamber much outside these physical limits.
now what controls the air to fuel ratio on an F150?
see where I am going with this??
its a simple suck,squeeze,bang and blow motor.
it must suck the correct amount of air to fuel.
it must be mechanically able to squeeze this mix.
it must fire (bang) this mix at the proper degree of crankshaft rotation.
it must be able to exhaust(blow) the spent gasses for the next suck cycle.
so all a tech really has to do is figgue out which one is not correct.
thats the easy part.
the laptop can record and graph the last 13 minutes of ECU operation.
both its inputs and outputs.
a simple fuel rail test guage can monitor rail pressure.
a simple DC analog meter,CD-77 is preferable, can look for intermittant hiccups that a digital will NEVER display.
but this thread has gone from a complaint of off idle stumble/stall to no power.
two COMPLETLY different issues.
most likly the latter is technician induced and the former may have been solved but now masked.
HOWEVER this engine is being tested in weather temps of 18*F.
I would NOT be on the boat at that temp, PERIOD.
simply wont happen .
myself, if this engine was at my shop I am confident that a few hours of testing with test wheel YB1626 I could find all the issues.
with YB1626 I could,at the dock, monitor fuel rail pressure, by using 2 of my CD-77 meters I could monitor BOTH ign coil primary voltages and with the laptop I could monitor ECU inputs and outputs, all simultaneously.
yamaha doesnt give a max RPM with YB-1626 but it will allow me to load the engine at the dock for testing.
and yes virginia, troubleshooting is that simple.
knowing whats supposed to happen and looking for what is not happening.
ya think an F150 is complex? try a CIWS system on a DDG-51 class destroyer.
most folks,includings Janes fighting ships say CIWS stands for Close In Weapons System.
it actually stands for Captian It Wont Shoot.
CIWS techs have a better than average hands on experience .

[99yam40]

The fuel filter powder problem was not an issue they said. Vacuum is still low , 25.4...high sierra

What was Barometric pressure compared to what the motor is registering after the MAP was swapped out?
In other words how far was it off still, and why are they not looking for what is causing that if that will lean out the motor?

Have they monitored the fuel pressures and vacuum while problems are occurring?

[high sierra]

Yamaha stalling

Rodbolt, I appreciate your sense of humor and knowledge. You are talking so far above the average tuner , we have a hard time following you.
The tec here at the boat shop according to " John in Atlanta; who wouldn't give his last name" says this tec here is the best in the country in his opinion. Mighty high praise. He's been here this present time ,2 weeks and is throwing parts at it as fast as he can. Atlanta says this is a "phantom " problem and this is the only one he knows of. Really. Atlanta John was condescending I felt and really didn't listen to the problem. NO public relation skills on his part. For what it is costing , we could send this unit to headquarters to be a lab rat and give me a new motor. I know, I know, I'm not getting a new motor. Actually I really liked my motor and was very satisfied. And now it's been ripped apart and screwed with by people who can't figure out what's wrong. I could do better I think, but , that's why I have a Warranty, so the experts can work on it. I expect more problems with the motor as they have lobotomized it. 99yam40, the barometric pressure at that time was 29.99 high sierra

[99yam40]

[quote=high sierra;56501 the barometric pressure at that time was 29.99 high sierra[/quote]


I realize the 1st print you posted showed it at 25.4, but is that before or after the swap out of the Map sensor?

If the swap did not change the input to the ECU than someone should be looking at why it is still reading off.

[high sierra]

yamaha

They are looking and don't know why, as of last night. high sierra

[high sierra]

Yamaha problem SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The service manager called this evening and the problem has been solved they say.
There was a momentary short in one of the injectors that would cause the 5 volt reference to drop causing the computer to send and receive the wrong signals. The barometric signal immediately went up to the current reading . The injectors and the harness were replaced and now it will be test run tomorrow morning. The tec deserves credit for sticking to it and I take back all ( well almost all) my criticism of Yamaha and him. All of the sensors and the ECM have been changed and will stay with the motor. A few members here hit on this earlier and deserve a pat on the back. Rodbolt deserves a pat on the back and a cheer for his long distance support. His reference to the 5 volt voltage being the cause was dead on. I referred that point to the dealer last week. The final success story will be tomorrow and as there wasn't time to run it tonight. TADAA high sierra

[WET-BOX-MARINE]

Rodbolt is the best thing yamaha has going for them

if you were closer and i was on here more i would have drove up and personally fixed this motor!!

[rodbolt17]

its not fixed, or the explanation is hooeey.
the injector is a simple solinoid.
its a coil of wire that if it shorts it simply doesnt work.
its also powered by 12 volts via the main relay any time the key is on.
the 5V reference is generated in the ECU and fed to ALL sensors that use a 5V reference.
the two simply DO NOT interact.
injector coil resistance is ALMOST a dead short when its good.
dead short would be 0 ohms and the injector is about 15-15 ohms.
dang close.
the injector has 12V applied to 1 terminal ANYTIME the key is on.
this voltage is NOT from the ECU but from the main relay.
the other injector terminal goes to the ECU.
the ECU momentarily makes the ground path.
when this path is made,measured in milliseconds, the injector pintle opens and the 45 PSI fuel sprays.
see where I am going???
its either not fixed or he explanation is hooeeyy
dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining.
the 5V reference sensor voltage is also used by other sensors inclding the oil pressure sensor.
anything that loads the 5v circuit wil affect the sensor feed back.
however its dirt simple to measure or monitor it.
and now you know why I only talk to a select few at atlanta.

[rodbolt17]

let me give another example of peeing and raining.
my boss came in the other day al bubbly.
he just had a nitrogen tire fill.
salesman told him 20-25% better efficiency.
I hated to bustest his bubbles.
the air from our compressor, the air most humans breathe, is roughly 20% OXYGEN.
the other roughly 80% you ask???
wait
wait wait
aghhhh its NITROGEN.
air craft tires see an extreme in temperature change and tire loading, also most fill at 500-600 PSI.
nascar and fourmulr 1 stuff, yep at 200+ MPH and extreme G cornerng maybe.
the average comuter, if you fall for Nitrogen fills you also like E-85.