Stalling Yamaha F150

[high sierra]

Yamaha

Rod , a leakdown test was done . It was within 3 %. Otherwise perfect. A compression check was done. All within 5 lbs. The balance shafts were done with the "TEC" standing by instructing the "Jetski mechanic" on the installation. I have a printout of the procedure. The sync and link was done by the Yamaha tech. They seem to ignore the barometric pressure on the printout showed 25.4 (copy attached), but the actual pressure was 29.8 or 9. This is the actual barometric pressure in Reno on that date. I realize the dealership has inexperienced personnel, BUT the Tec turned out to be totally inefficient. He also will not meet with me to discuss the problem . The dealer says the "tech" doesn't want to be second guessed. I offered to take them to the lake to see the problem but they don't want the customer on scene. I don't pick the personel. I'm beginning to think the tech is an inefficient ****. If I took it over the hill, I'd end up with the same tech, as that's where he comes from. It's not MY doing that nobody knows what the hell THEY are doing. To get to a dealer that is supposedly qualified is a 130 mile one way run over a 10,000 foot pass in winter. This problem has been going on for 3 months . If I go to Yamaha headquarters at this point the local dealer will throw his hands up and ****can me and say get out of his life. What a screwup on Yamaha's part. Honda is looking better thanever. Dazzled by brilliance and baffled by bull**** high sierra

[rodbolt17]

your numbers are all wrong.
NOTE the ISC opening VS the TPS voltage?
at that TPS voltage the shutters are basically closed, the ISC,if the link and sync were actually correct, your ISC numbers should be in the mid 40% range.
your baro numbers are close to 6000 ft above se*****l but should agree with LOCAL ACTUAL pressures.
if actual pressure was 29.8 and the engine ECU was told 25 thats a difference of about 3000 ft.
the higher the altitude the LEANER the ECU will make the engine.
all the way up until it stalls. remember the ONLY way the ECU knows about actual altitude is VIA the map sensor at KEY ON power.
has anyone actually tested the MAP sensor 5V reference?
first thing to do if an anomally is noted.
low V in means low V out but the ECU doesnt know it cause its inside the mapped range of operational altitudes.
it will however react to it.
if the leakdown test showed less than 5% why bother with a less accurate compression test??
the reason for a leakdown test is its faster and more accurate than a compression test and it shows me I can seal that cylinder.
your running intake pressure numbers look a bit high for the baro reading.
remember manifold absolute pressure is the inverse of intake vacum.
years ago with carbs we only cared about intake vacum, at idle 18-20"Hg was goooooood.
as the throttle opened intake vacum would drop to almost 0"Hg there again goooood.
now, manifold absolute pressure, we start with barometric pressure,say 30"Hg.
now with the throttles closed and the engine idling we should see 10-12"Hg of manifold pressure with the pressure approaching 30"Hg at or near wide open throttle.
this tells the ECU information about engine LOAD.
so the ECU looks at manifold pressure,intake air temp,coolent temp and throttle angle(TPSv) and calculates ign timing and injection duration(amount of fuel) to obtain the RPM that the computer has mapped for the above sensor inputs.
its actually stone age technology that kicks a lot of techs.
thats why by slightly opening the shutters,making sure all 4 are open the same amount,thats what the tech mate tool is for, the engine now has more air, the ECU is rather stupid and doesnt know we opened the shutters.
all it knows is the ENGINE IDLE RPM is increased.(more air)
the ONLY way it knows to slow the engine down is by commanding the ISC to a lower % of opening making the idle speed lower based on map,coolent,intake air,TPS and pulser coil(speed) inputs.
its ALL about maintaining a ratio of about 14 parts air to 1 part gasoline.
this has to be done at ALL engine speeds and loads or it simply wont run correctly.
not all field reps actually have any experience. some take the masters test 6 or more times before they pass it but still have no experience in actual engine operations.
me I passed mine on the first try in 2006.
however I do have some training and experience that most techs dont have.

[high sierra]

Yamaha stalling

Rodbolt , your words of wisdom were hand carried by me to the service manager. He doesn't know why the tec didn't catch the errors in the readouts. Wednesday the boat goes in to the dealer. He promised as I was shaking his hand that he would follow your procedure BEFORE they went to the lake. He's not a bad guy and just wants me happy and this thing over with. You are going to be elevated to GRAND MASTER TECH if this works. A new catagory for Yamaha techs. Thanks high sierra

[rodbolt17]

nope,
this just isnt my first trip around the block.
most of what I deal with is 150 and up with twins.
probably 300-350 each year not including mercruiser and volvo.
had one last summer that 2 other dealers had looked at that had 23 hours on it.
man showed up,after Yamaha had called us, he had a stack of printouts.
looked at them, laughed, hooked up the lap top and presto.
motor had altitude sickness.
that day was very nice,and I am sitting at se*****l, so I assumed the baro pressure had to be 30-31"Hg.
lap top at key on showed 19"HG.
boating mount killamanjaro baby.
the ECU range appearently was ok with that altitude and reacted accordingly.
leaned the mix out so much that it would not run mostly.
tested the 5V reference and saw it was low, unplugged various other sensors on the same 5V reference circuit until I found a failed water pressure sensor that was taking out the 5V reference.
see how easy this can be??
but I suspect in your case the technician induced issues will have to be addressed BEFORE repairing the original issue.

[Sparkieboat]

***..I am glad I live on the same coast as you Rod..If I have that type of issue I will be driving the 8 hours to see you..just seems like Yamaha would have at least a dozen master techs like yourself scattered around the country to help incompetent dealers. but I don't have a 150, so hopefully I can just write to you in the forums.

[rodbolt17]

they actually do, over 60 of us.
you can actually look at a list of names or by dealership location on the yamaha outboard marine site under service and training.
some of us actually read and study beyond a one week course.
others take the one week or 4 day course and call it good.
if a wanna be tech reads NO OTHER book the book should be: motors chassis and electrical.
my copy was given to me in 1976 for my 15th birthday, guess where it is right now?
if you guessed within my right arms reach from dis heyar key um board, you win.
actually,several other technical publications are as close too.

[Sparkieboat]

I can not find that book..who is the publisher

[rodbolt17]

the book is out of print.
here is what you need to google, I bought a copy for my daughter from amazon.
motor
auto engines & Electrical systems.
library of congress number 77-88821
ISBN 0-910992-73-8

[Sparkieboat]

High sierra, I am anxious for an update of your issue..I have been praying for you also. I am hoping for some good news..

my motor is currently in the hands of a "Master Tech" who for whatever reason has not gotten around to my motor yet, it is the off season and they just did not look all that busy when I was there..so not sure why 3 days later and they still haven't looked at it..maybe they were busier than they looked. I am just hoping he can resolve my issue with out a four figure bill...

I am going to have to get my one of those computer hook up doo dads if I am going to keep this motor. I hate having to depend on some one else to fix my stuff..maybe Rod has an extra one laying around, he could sell me for a reasonable price.

[rodbolt17]

you need an alternator.
google mechanic vs customer.
3 days would be very fast indeed.

[Sparkieboat]

that is a funny link there Rod..I told them I wanted them to replace the alternator and guarantee that my motor would not mess up any more and do it for a discount cause I already paid others to fix it with used parts and it still does not run right...I was careful to not try to tell them what was wrong with my motor..i simply told them what I had done and asked for a diagnostic..they told me they would have it done by Wednesday, so I was just going by what they said.

[high sierra]

stalling Yamaha

The boat went in yesterday to the dealer. I spent some time explaining the procedure Rodbolt decided upon. I checked the list of Master Yamaha tecs in California and this tec coming up here to the high country is not one of them .
There is one Master Tec in Big Bear California and SHE is the only one listed. If this guy from Sacramento , doesn't come up with the solution with all this help , I may call Jamie Miller ( the master tec in Big Bear) and Yamaha back east as well to solve this. Maybe they should fly Rodbolt to Reno. Sounds good to me. I will report on the results. high sierra

[Sparkieboat]

yea..i am sure Rod could fix your problem..maybe he will come if you promise him a Steak dinner...LOL

[high sierra]

Yamaha stalling

I will buy Rodbolt and a significant other, the best buffet in the West if he comes to Reno to fix my motor. The Atlantis Casino has a fantastic buffet ! All you can eat Prime Rib to Alaskan King crab. No limit. high sierra

[high sierra]

stalling Yamaha

The dealer just called. They have replaced every sensor on the motor including the ECM. The problem still exists.
BUT , they have a good idea what it is. Results reportedly this afternoon, Friday ( 11th Feb.)........ high sierra